The Shortlist Episode 97: The Short(er) List: Better Home Offices

In the era of remote and hybrid work, your home office is either working for you or against you. And if you're reading this from your couch with a laptop balanced on a throw pillow—you might be ready for some improvements to your situation.

In this episode of The Short(er) List, Becky sits down with guest Hanna Kaneko to tackle the space where the real work takes place, and where so many ergonomic decisions come into play. They dig into what it takes to build a home office setup that supports a happy, healthy, and efficient day—and how to keep your mind right when the tether of the desk feels unbreakable.

From lighting and layout to tools and temperature, they discuss the small upgrades that can make a big difference. No, you don't need a standing desk that costs more than your car. Yes, you probably do need to stop working from the kitchen table.

Settle in and get ready for some tips! Your wrists, your eyes, your brain and your back will all thank you.

Podcast Transcript

Welcome to The Shorter List. Hi, I'm Becky Ellison from The Short List Podcast, and I am going rogue. Because apparently some things are just too silly, weird, or extra to fit into our regular shortlist episodes.

We are bringing those conversations, rants, and other fun stuff that was too spicy for TV to you in bite-sized little podcast treats hosted by me and featuring all of your favorite Middle of Sixers. I am so excited for this episode.

I've been looking forward to it forever because we finally, finally have Hanna Kaneko, one of my favorite Middle of Sixers ever, for her shorter list debut. Hanna, how is it going? What are you working on?

How's your life?

Hello. What's up? It's me, Hanna.

I'm excited to be here for my first shorter list episode. Life's good. It is.

You know, just working on proposals and doing my thing.

Sure.

Surviving, you know.

Surviving proposals. That is the theme of our whole industry. I'm glad you're surviving.

Has anything fun happened this week?

Hmm, this week. Well, I was recovering from an illness that I think everybody in the world had.

Accurate.

And I finally got back to my hot yoga. So that was super exciting for me. But after taking like a week or week and a half off, I felt very weak.

And I was like, wow, all this progress gone in just one week. So I'm excited to keep building on that and get stronger.

Back on the hot yoga. That sounds horrifying to me. I mean, I like colder temps.

But I think like cold yoga, that sounds nice. But probably you'd be like breaking limbs and like just snapping your knees. And that's probably not a good idea.

Cold yoga sounds terrible.

Or maybe it's a money making machine.

Like nobody else is doing it. We'll set it up in Beverly Hills and like invite all the influencers and be like, cold yoga is the new thing.

You should start that, Becky.

Maybe not. I don't know. I am passionate about air conditioning.

Anyway, today listeners, speaking of comfort and temperature, I don't know, that might factor and it might not.

Today, we are going to share some tips and recommend some products and strategies to like help make your home office situation or even your office office situation, if that is your situation, a better situation because we at Middle of Six are fully

remote. Hallelujah. And I would not go back to working in an office for a million dollars in a free cheeseburger every Friday.

So we like to think we're experts at this is hilarious that I'm saying this because if you could see my home office set up, you would not consider me an expert. But we are passionate about the home office remote working lifestyle.

So Hanna is going to give you some expert tips and I'm going to chime in with silly things. Hanna, how long have you been working from home?

I've been working from home full time since starting at Middle Six, but been working hybrid since around 2021, 2020 or 2021. That's probably when everyone started experiencing work from home life because of COVID.

And so yeah, I've been on and off like hybrid or working from home since then. So not an expert by any means, but I have cultivated some good tips and tricks for staying focused and motivated at home.

Do you prefer fully remote or do you like hybrid or are you missing the in-office? I don't know that anybody would miss that.

Yeah. You know, I think there is something to be said about working in a space where there are other people. So when I work from home, it's just me and my kitty, Moogie, and I love working from home.

I do. And so this is like my optimal ideal work situation. But I do like mixing it up every once in a while.

Sometimes I realize, oh, I've been inside for a few days now. And so it's nice to break that apart. And sometimes I'll go to a co-working space.

Sometimes I'll go to a quiet cafe just to mix it up.

Yeah. The cat is sick of you for sure after spending that much time. I mean, like if you, I don't know if like the cat is also working from home.

If you guys like are taking meetings at the same time, like you're both on the phone, that can get weird.

We are. Yeah. Moogie knows all of the Middle of Six secrets.

Oh, no. Yeah.

Let's see.

So I guess like getting right into the work at home environment, because this is something you are passionate about. How would you describe your setup?

Yeah. So I have a few, I guess, non-negotiables for my work from home setup. So I'm very sensitive to temperature.

We just talked about heat and AC, and I am very anti-AC. I've told my colleague Katie that I'm allergic to wind. I hate wind.

I hate fans. There are no fans in this house. I do, however, have this very old, raggedy space heater, and that is blasting 365 days of the year.

So I like a toasty environment that keeps me motivated, that keeps me alive. So that's one non-negotiable. I also have a dual monitor.

It's kind of an underrated, but very important piece of technology. Sure. Don't work from your laptop screen, please.

Like, let's graduate from that. You need a dual monitor or, like, one of those crazy, curved, fancy monitors. I don't care what you have, but dual monitor saves me.

I'm, like, way more productive that way. I also need a pretty quiet space, so I have, like, a noise-canceling headphone situation. I also keep my workspace pretty tidy, so I see it as kind of like closing shift after the end of the day.

Like, I pick up after myself, I put everything where it's supposed to be, so that when I log in for the morning shift, I'm like, okay, the closing shift did their job, and tidied up and, like, set up the workspace for success the next day.

So I keep myself accountable that way. Yeah, so those are just kind of a few high-level tips.

That's incredible. You have set up your own, like, fake co-workers who you've got a cleaning crew, like you've got the cat is like your rival, who knows all the tea and the secrets. Like, this is incredible.

Do you have, like, birthday cake in the kitchen or?

No, but I wish. I wish one of my co-workers had brought in cake. I'm always down for a sweet treat.

You might have to take the initiative on that.

I don't know, unless your cat has, like, an Amazon Prime account or something and can order his own groceries. I don't know how cats work. Interesting.

So, like, sounds like, so you like a tidy environment. You like it to be very, very hot. You're just working in a sauna.

That's, like, unthinkable to me. I, it's probably worth noting, listeners, that I am in Los Angeles, California, and Hanna is in, are you in Seattle?

No, I'm South Sound.

I, that's, okay. I don't know where that, Donna's in Washington.

Think Lakewood, think Tacoma, think Olympia, Western Washington, but South Sound, yeah, not quite Seattle.

Is that better? Are we, is there some snob appeals to living in South Sound versus Seattle?

I like the South Sound.

That's a yes.

I mean, I love, I hate Seattle, so like, the listeners don't get mad at me. I love Seattle. It is quite pricey up there, but yeah, I love Seattle.

I love Washington in general.

I mean, it's a good, the state in general, I mean, it's got the nature, it's got a huge city that you can just avoid altogether. I do like the pike market where they throw the fish. That's not bad, but the rest of it.

Yeah.

I don't write in listeners.

Wouldn't it be weird if someone wrote in? Honestly, if you do write in, I'm gonna listen to anything you have to say. Okay, so clutter free space is important.

We like to set our temperature. I've got the AC going. I do have fans.

I've got a fan in every room of the house, even with air conditioning, so we're very different people there. But I too like to have a tidy environment. It's important to me that I don't have a lot of stuff on my tabletop.

I've just got a few things, because for me, having a lot of stuff around is just, it's just like having a pasteboard that's full of stuff in design. I don't like it. We're like minimal, so we are in alignment there.

So talking about like kind of self care and like keeping yourself on point for working from home, what can we recommend to maintain like maximum health and sanity while working in the remote office?

Yeah, so I think it's important to know that it's practically impossible to be 100% efficient and productive 100% of the time.

So I think just knowing yourself, knowing what your attention span is, listening to your body, and maybe looking to some time management techniques. There's techniques called like the Pomodoro technique that was established by Francisco Cirillo.

It's like a method that breaks up work into 25-minute intervals separated by five-minute breaks.

Sounds delicious.

Yeah. Repeated four rounds and then you take a 30-minute extended break and then you just keep repeating that throughout the date.

Okay.

Now, I know sometimes that's not going to work because like what if you're in an hour or two-hour meeting or you have to grind for a deadline.

So, keep those things in mind, but I think it's really important to find time to step away from your desk and stretch your legs. Maybe go outside and get some fresh air or maybe go on a walk.

I think it's really important to continue to be productive that you are giving your brain and your body rest intermittently. So, that's really important. I like turning my phone to silent mode.

There's a setting where you can, there are certain contacts or things that can bypass silent mode. So, my family can bypass the silent mode if there's an emergency, but for the most part, I have all notifications silence on my phone.

My phone is a big distraction to me, so sometimes I'll even put it in a different room or put it on the other side of the room or something like that.

Lock it up in a canvas bag and give it to the cat.

Exactly. Yeah. Moogie's on the phone instead.

And then, yeah, stuff like that. And then, I also like establishing a good morning routine. So, I was talking about the morning shift and the evening shift.

Yeah.

Before I clock in for the morning shift, sometimes I'll go to a workout class in the morning just to get my endorphins running and wake up my body and my mind.

But there is studies that show that having a consistent morning routine allows your body and your brain to start. It acts like an on switch to get you going.

So, if you do the same routine every morning, then your body's like, okay, I'm like, I'm getting ready to log on for the day. And so, your brain and body are already in like that mode. Okay.

But what if the routine is like looking at your phone and being like, oh my God, it's almost time to get up, but I just like, I can't do it.

And like you've opened one eye, but like not the other one yet. That's the thing I do and I literally don't know why I do it. But I'm like, I open my eyes one at a time.

And then like, what if you're part of that routine is just convincing yourself to just like force yourself out of bed. And it takes like a few stretches to get like upright.

And then like, I mean, I don't know, like if you, but if you do that every morning, you're saying like you're, that's good. So sounds like I'm killing it.

Well, I don't know about going on your phone first thing in the morning. I won't get too deep into it. But the morning, like right when you wake up and right when you go to sleep, try to avoid phone usage.

There is like studies that show that that's probably not the best.

So it's always studies.

If you can just lay in bed and open one eye and then open another eye. So keep your eyes open for like 10 seconds and then just keep doing that until you wake up.

Keep them both open. That's a good exercise. Stretches are good, honestly, for those of us who are not 22.

I find that doing just some like basic kind of like stretching out the legs and arms as much as you can. Still while you're in bed before you get up, can make you feel a little bit lighter on your feet. I'm also a routine person.

I'm kind of like I set up, I have like the same breakfast every day and like get the coffee going and do whatever like, and then yeah, like I'll check my email and then go through like, okay, my task list for the day, like I'm, you know, because like

as an ADD, however, I'm not the most organized. So like it's important for me to like map out my whole day.

And then what I will also do is for the beginning of the week, I will block out on my calendar, blocks of time for each task that I have to do, which is something that Wendy actually convinced me to do in the beginning when I was just like a complete

chaotic mess. So thanks Wendy for introducing that into my life, it's a good way to visually block your time if you're not someone who thinks in like, how long is this going to take? You can literally physically look at your calendar.

We should do an ADD episode. I just interrupted myself mid-sentence to say that, so story checks out, listeners.

But you can look at your little blocks of time and see like, oh, okay, I know how to move this around to fit things into my schedule, which is, I mean, maybe that is home office related because you don't have someone coming in and constantly saying,

here, can you do this? You have to manage your own time. So that's great.

Can we endorse some products? Do we want to try for a brand deal, Hanna? Is there anything specific that you have around you that you use that makes life better?

Let's get techie.

Yes.

Or not techie.

Yes. I'm very passionate about this piece of technology. It's kind of a controversial one, but it's my anchor ergonomic mouse.

It is very ugly. It looks like an alien.

Listeners, it is... This is not an attractive mouse.

It's not cute. I'm not going to lie to you, but it works. It works.

Sure.

I was skeptical.

You know, I was judging a book by its cover. Not going to lie. But as marketers, AC marketers, you know, were on the computer pretty much the whole shift, the whole day.

And so when I was using a traditional mouse, I was getting cramps in my wrist. My arms would start to hurt, and this ergonomic mouse really does help protect your wrist.

And so I highly recommend at least checking it out, give it a shot, it'll save your wrist. There are cuter ones available online. This anchor one is like just a black mouse.

It's not super cute, but there are cuter ones, like if you want a pink one or a white one, or, you know, one that looks a little bit cuter. So do your research online. But I fully endorse the ergonomic mouse.

Nice.

Yeah, I'm a cheap, regular like comes with the keyboard mouse kind of girl, because like as a graphic designer, I don't like those mouse mice that sort of force your hand into a position, even if it is ergonomic.

Like I want to control that mouse to like really precisely and like turn it into a pen almost. So for me, just having a small round like mouse that I can just, you know, beat into submission and just completely dominate with my work.

I mean, yeah, I don't know what's happening here, but like for me, like that is the best for me because it's a bit smaller. It's like easier for me to point, but like I get what you're saying.

Like, I mean, ergonomics is important because that stuff builds up over time.

Yes.

You don't have a good chair. If you don't have a good desk, that's at a good height that keeps your shoulders from not like hunching forward. Like we all do that.

You got to protect your wrists. You got to protect your neck. Wu-Tang, shout out keyboard pads.

That's another thing. I don't know why I'm like showing things. We're not, it was the podcast.

I do have the little like baguette shaped like wrist pad that you put in front of the keyboard to like keep your wrists from getting crunched up. I got a little bean bag for in front of the mouse. Bonus ASMR listeners.

My wrist bean bag. Those little things like might seem silly, but like they really do add up over time. Because if you're doing the same repetitive thing every day for hours and hours and hours, like your body's just going to crumble.

So like set yourself up for success.

Exactly.

What else we got, Hanna? More products we can endorse?

Yeah. Speaking of body crumbling, sitting down for eight hours a day, body crumbling. Yeah.

Your body for sure will deteriorate. So I fully endorse a standing desk, and it doesn't have to be expensive. It doesn't have to be brand new.

You can like look on Amazon or Facebook Marketplace. Actually, I don't have Facebook, so I can't personally attest to Facebook Marketplace, but I know so many people who have found gently used standing desks for very cheap.

Prolonged sitting causes office butt, which is basically your glute muscles atrophying over time. And like if you're at your desk, sitting at your desk for eight hours a day, for your entire career, imagine how much of an office butt you might get.

So butt atrophy. Yeah.

Sir Mix-A-Lot just gasped somewhere. OK, so this is another thing. I don't know that I'm passionate about this, but I have I have like a cushion that you can put on your chair in case you get like tailbone compression and that sort of thing.

That see like I maybe that's like the theme of my whole workspace is I've just got all these things that are built up to create like this environment. I've got my monitors around little risers. I've got pads for everything.

I got a little cushion on my chair like you. Listeners can build the perfect little workstation so that you do not get office butt or wrists or neck or any of the other things which are conspiring to kill us.

Yeah, everyone has different like sets of non-negotiables and you know, ways to make your office space comfortable.

So I would just say, you know, make a list of like what's a deal breaker and what makes you successful and just start building from there.

Oh my god, Becky, look at her butt.

Do you have anything like specific to like our industry and the work we do that like only AEC marketers would know about like what's like a secret hot tip that like people in other industries don't know about that we need?

I don't know. I mean, I think that sometimes when we're pushing deadlines, things can feel really serious and you feel a lot of responsibility.

I think that's like one of the great things about working in AEC marketing is everyone is so good and is so on it and feels like this level of responsibility and produces really high levels of work.

But that could negatively impact your mental well-being. So I would say this is maybe like kind of a silly tip, but go to Instagram and find AEC marketing memes and kind of laugh about it. I feel like the AEC marketing memes page is so funny.

It's very specific to AEC marketing, and they just make memes out of silly things like deadlines and RFPs and things like that. So I think it's good to get a good chuckle out of the work that we do and kind of lighten it up.

For sure, AEC marketing memes, friend of the show, we have we have interacted and we like them. So shout out to them. I hope they're listeners.

Maybe we can collaborate someday. That is one of my dreams. Yeah, for sure.

A little comic relief. It's a stressful job. You got to sing in the trenches.

I say this all the time. Maybe keep something around your workspace that can entertain you. Or I interesting that you recommended we go on Instagram after boasting that you don't have Facebook.

During your break, not during the workday.

Nobody's perfect.

Some of us do watch television. Listeners, we can't all be. Yeah, no, I think that's all great advice.

Alright, well, that is our episode for this week. Rate, subscribe, remember to share the love, make a friend, recommend the podcast to another AEC marketer who wants to feel seen.

And we will see you next time, where we will literally come over and redecorate your house. Hanna, thank you so much for being on the podcast. I hope we can have you on a bazillion more.

This was very enjoyable. We talk all the time, but like it's still a treat every time I get to talk to you.

Thanks for having me.

Alright, peace out listeners. Good luck. Take your breaks.

Pomodoro. I'm doing the Italian hands thing right now.

The Shortlist is a podcast that explores all things AEC marketing. Hosted by Middle of Six Principal, Wendy Simmons, each episode features members of the MOS team, where we take a deep dive on a wide range of topics related to AEC marketing including: proposal development, strategy, team building, business development, branding, digital marketing, and more. You can listen to our full archive of episodes here.