The Shortlist Episode 101: Bonus Episode: Becky Interviews Wendy

In this bonus episode, the tables are turned as Becky Ellison takes over hosting duties and puts Wendy in the guest seat. As Middle of Six celebrates its 10-year anniversary, the conversation becomes part interview, part reflection on the people, experiences, and unexpected moments that have shaped the journey.

Wendy shares her experiences from a decade of business ownership, and producer Kyle Davis reminds us of the value in building genuine relationships through the simple act of being ourselves.

Podcast Transcript

Welcome to The Shortlist, we're exploring all things AEC marketing to help your firm win The Shortlist. I'm Wendy Simmons, and today I'm talking with Becky.

Wendy, Wendy, Wendy, Wendy. You always do the hosting, and then we never get to hear anything from you. I feel like people want to hear what you have to say.

I mean, always a podcast host, never a bride. You know what I mean?

I don't know if I agree with that, that no one hears from me, that people want to hear from me. I talk all the time, Becky. You know this.

I mean, it is your podcast, but I think the people want to hear.

The Wendy report, I think everyone wants to know what's going on on the other side of the microphone, as it were. So I think I'm taking over today. I think I'm taking over The Shortlist.

You're taking over.

I think you've become the guest, Wendy.

I think the shoe's on the other foot. Let's go.

Okay, let's do it. Becky, take it away.

Welcome to The Shortlist. We're exploring all things AEC marketing to help your firm win The Shortlist.

I'm Becky Ellison, and today I'm talking with Wendy Simmons, the host of The Shortlist and founder of Middle of Six, about changes, growth, and what it's like to be a powerful woman running a successful business and podcast while balancing life

changes, self-care, and dealing with weird creative types who do stuff like taking over your podcast. Hey, Wendy, how's it going?

Well, hi, Becky. It's going really well. It's so fun to be on the other side.

I can't wait to have this conversation with you and see what you throw at me. Let's do it, and also, let me know if I get too like, I don't know, what do I want to say? Too awesome.

Real? Too cool. I don't know.

Too cool, no.

Like, you know, I'm excited to hear what you're going to ask me, but it also makes me a little nervous, so let's do it.

That's okay.

That's normal and healthy. It's normal to be nervous while recording your voice and recording your face and knowing that strangers are going to be tuning in and hearing everything you say, every sound you make, every time you breathe blank.

That won't happen because Kyle's going to edit all those sounds out.

You're not helping.

Sorry.

Oops. We're all in this together.

I just breathed and nobody even knows it because I edited it out.

See, he's brilliant. He's going to even edit that part out. You will have never heard him even say that.

This whole conversation will be gone by the time you're all tuning in.

There'll be nothing, just dead air.

That should be our new, that's our next episode. It's just silence, just be alone with your thoughts, meditation for marketers, enjoy the silence.

2:48

A Wild Week

Yeah, we're not. So Wendy, this has been a pretty wild week here at Middle of Six, I gotta say. How has it been for you?

Anything weird happened? Anything fun? Any successes this week?

Oh my goodness.

Well, I feel like my weeks at Middle of Six are often pretty wild. It's the way I run. I feel comfortable with a very full schedule, with a lot going on.

I don't know why. It's like a game. I think I mentioned this before, at least with our team.

There's playing the most exciting, awesome game you could ever play running a business. So I had travel this week.

I went from Southern California to Seattle, had several in-person meetings, which is my favorite thing to do, kicked off a proposal, kicked off a big strategic brand messaging thing with a client, and I got that teed up, flew back to Southern

California. I was writing, taking notes on the plane. But honestly, that's when I feel alive, and I love it, and here we are towards the end of the week. Good stuff.

Did that answer your question?

That's very exciting. I can't imagine. I'm not someone who can work and travel.

But then again, as a graphic designer, I think that would be very obnoxious to have two huge monitors on the plane or whatever.

Oh yeah. Normally, I don't work on a plane. I actually think it's better reserved for thinking time.

That's a good place to just think or read or prep. But it happened to be I had so much travel that I was like, this is great. I've got this uninterrupted time.

No one can email me. Just going to write. So that's how I used it.

So you're not getting the Wi-Fi in the sky then.

You're unplugging intentionally.

Sometimes I do, but I also feel like it can be spotty, so I never rely on it. It's actually kind of, it's written into our handbook. Do not rely on the Wi-Fi on the plane.

Of course it is.

It may not be there.

So if you can just kind of work separately, then you're fine.

Yeah. You're so thorough.

4:50

Marketerʼs Top Advice

Okay. Well, let's get into it. Let's just get right into it.

Not that we haven't already gotten into it. Wendy, I got to know, and I think all of our listeners want to know, if you could give only one piece of advice to every AEC marketer listening right now, what would it be?

Oh, goodness. To every AEC marketer, that's a big ask. I've said it before, I will say it again, and I need to say it, I'm saying it to myself too.

So it's like for everybody here, get away from your computer, find some time to build in breaks, go and connect with real human beings.

Middle of Six team is fully remote, so a lot of times we're looking at each other on a screen and you might be in an office, but you still need to connect differently than on your computer.

For people who are really creative, that might mean like go get inspired, go for a walk, touch grass, get out into nature, whatever it is.

But really, I'm more focused, my recommendation is like go and be with people, meet with other marketers, build your career or just like your connections by actually knowing people, because I find myself, it's so easy to just get sucked into all the

requests and all the proposals and my introverted comfort zone being on my computer, but that is not the way to win in the AEC game. So good advice. Yeah, not breaking news. I'll just keep saying it for forever.

Get out, don't get the Wi-Fi, step away from your computer, unplug the cords, shut down the robot, analog life, organic experiences.

I love this. My anti-robot agenda is already just sparkling thinking about those. Yeah, don't talk to ChatGPT, talk to other people.

There's a whole wide world out there. I love you said touch grass. That's wonderful.

There's so much inspiration in the world that's not in exactly what we do every day. I mean, I like, as a graphic designer, like I'm, people always want to know like what, what inspires me creatively and whatever.

Like, am I following other designers? Like, absolutely not. I want my inspiration to come from like everything else in the world.

You know, I'm looking at, you know, strange things, nature, TV shows, weird movies, you know. I will cosign that and heartily agree. That's good advice.

Step away from the computer.

7:15

Life Adventures

So, last year was a big year for you particular. I mean, for all of us, but you, you had a heck of a year. You had some pretty big adventures.

You had some life changes. What are some of the highlights in Wendy's life from last year?

Yeah, it, 2025 was one, you know, I never exactly know what to expect when we go into a new year. And there was a lot of change at Middle of Six. And, you know, lots of good things for me.

Like I already mentioned, I love to cram a lot into whatever I'm doing. It's just the way I roll. So, some things that are really important to me, just as a human, like things that I value is travel.

And I like to go and see new places. That's my way of touching grass. I get away from the computer, go and be inspired.

See, I love a city, so I want to go see what's going on and get that energy because it feels very different from my day-to-day life in that way. So I was able to squeeze in the travel that I want, a couple of really cool trips in that way.

And, you know, I had some, I had a, I actually had a really awesome big personal thing happen, which was I bought a new house. Wow. I know life is, life is not just work, right?

It's not just that part of it, but this was something that I was looking for and planning for, for a decade, not even joking. Kyle knows. I've been telling him.

I've been looking at houses for forever.

Knowing you, I feel like this took 10 minutes and you just did it in between flights. Because you're so organized and your schedule is so packed. I'm impressed.

Well, the part that was hard for me and my working style is that I am a planner.

I like to be really prepared. I had been prepared in previous years to try to buy a house and make the deal come through and the housing market can be wild and it just didn't work out.

So when the right thing came up, I didn't feel like I had all my ducks in a row, but it was a good exercise to go through it and realize, we're still pretty organized and ready for it.

And sometimes with that planning and research, it just makes it possible when the thing comes out of the blue. And that's exactly what happened. We were not looking for a house, but we found the thing that we had been looking for for a long time.

And I think it's probably impacted my work life in a really positive way too, because this was like this unfinished, incomplete item in my life that I'm a completionist. I got to check that box. I really wanted it to happen.

It did, and so now I can, I feel more settled. I was like this, I don't have to worry about that. It's a thing.

I'm really happy about it. It's make me happy. I'm gonna have a place that I can also share with our team in a lot of ways.

So it just feels like an awesome next chapter. It was huge and it came out of nowhere. So if I'm dropping tidbits of advice throughout this podcast.

Yeah, let's go.

Drop them.

I feel like that's what I do, is don't forget to make space for life to happen, you know? Sometimes it's kind of hard, scary life stuff that you didn't expect. It just comes out of the blue.

We need space for that. Sometimes it's the most amazing thing that you weren't expecting to have drop into your lap. And I've seen that with our team, have some really cool things happen for them.

And so let's not make our life so jam-packed that we can't like flex and take in what's coming at us.

That is great advice for all the listeners. When your ship comes in, be standing at the pier as a singer-songwriter, not famously said a very long time ago. You got to make your own luck.

You got to be so prepared that when something happens and takes you completely by surprise, you're just ready to go. And you do that by touching grass, stepping away from your computer, not getting the Wi-Fi and traveling all over the world.

I wonder where did you travel to this year, Wendy? And of the places you went, what was the best? Where should we all go?

Oh, goodness.

I had two trips. I had a winter trip in February with some of my family to Costa Rica to just be in the jungle, and the beach, and the wild, and Costa Rica is a really lovely place.

And so I got to be there with my niece and nephew and to see them experiencing that. And it was really fun, right? It was an amazing family trip, so I would highly recommend that.

That's a great one. And then I also got to take a fall trip to Portugal and Spain. And it was been on my list for a long time.

And then the pandemic happened and all these things, right? So it was definitely, I had to prioritize, like, we have to make this happen. And it was lovely to go and be in Europe.

And I just think Europe is a really magical place, all of the history and just the age of everything. I loved it. We rented a car and we drove around.

And I always feel like when you can drive around, even though public transportation is really awesome, a lot of places, but sometimes being able to be that free and not just only walking around in the city or something is really exciting.

So we covered a lot of ground. We actually went to three continents and five countries and 11 cities in 14 days. It was a whirlwind.

It filled my cup with that, like, inspiration. Seeing murals, you know, and, like, tucked away in corners and, you know, tracking down the best desserts and just all the things. So you asked which one is, what's the best place I went to?

Yes.

Pick a favorite, Wendy.

Well, I got to go to Tangier in Africa. That was my first time being in Africa. I know it's just, it's, you know, so close and has such a connection with Europe.

Doesn't feel like other parts of Africa for sure, but it inspired me. And I thought, oh, I want more. There are more cities in Morocco that I would like to go to.

And just didn't have time. We had a really super quick little trip over there. So I thought it was amazing, amazing culture.

And one of the things I loved about Tangier is that it's such an international city in here, learning about the history and where there, I mean, that area is mired with so much conflict over, you know, so many countries and they are living together,

you know, peacefully. And it's really inspiring to see a group, a community kind of be able to consider themselves. We're an international country, international city. We are very accepting there's room for all of us.

So I'm probably totally glazing over so many terrible moments in history, cause that is the truth of the world and everything. But where I was at that point, I was like, wow, this is incredible. So I don't know.

Travel is amazing because you just get to get a little bite and then be inspired and think about, what do I want to know more about? What do I want to learn about? Or I had no idea.

And sometimes I'm actually kind of embarrassed or surprised. Like, how did I not know that? I should have known that, but it's never too late to learn.

You can't have learned everything in our high school history class.

Word, this is where you go. You got to get out and see the world, see the things. This is great.

Kicking off with some optimism and some hope and people coming together. What a great sentiment. I hope your vision comes true for all of the countries of the world, Wendy.

Let's just solve it right now. World peace. We're done.

This is it. Everyone just listen to Wendy.

Oh, gosh. But thank you.

So that's a lot of moving around. We're traveling all over the world. We're moving houses.

How is Poppy handling all of this? I hope, well, she's sitting so quietly back there behind you on the chair.

Yeah. She's got her headphones on. She's, I guess, our associate producer making sure.

How are we doing, Poppy?

Let us know.

Poppy is a happy girl. She's a good traveler. She did not travel internationally, but she could.

She's that good that when she gets in her little crate under the seat, people are like, oh, I didn't even know there was a dog there. So I'm proud of that training that we've done that she can be chill, and she's a good traveler.

I bet Poppy gets the Wi-Fi.

Oh, yeah.

15:30

Business Evolution

So we've seen a lot of changes.

A lot of changes are happening at Middle of Six. And since everyone is tuning in and leaning in and listening for tips and ideas that they can copy, JK, feel free. We want to build community.

Wondering, what do you feel like, what are the major changes that are going on at Middle of Six? What is this year looking like? What new, fun, innovative, special things are we up to that people should know about?

Oh, gosh, man.

A lot is going on at Middle of Six. Last year, I didn't intend it to be a theme, but it fully turned into a theme. It was actually my annual goal, which was like, I really want to focus on the client experience.

And what does that mean? And what do we need to do? And I just was like brewing in my mind.

But then it became like a rallying cry and everything. I was working on and it trickled down to the team too. So in 2025, I feel like we leveled up a lot of our processes and tools.

We're in our 10th year, kind of approaching 10 years of Middle of Six in 2026. And so we had, when we very first started, we were using tools like Excel spreadsheet.

And there were times when we got rid of that and we moved to programs that would help us do better with our invoicing and track things. Right, so we, I know, exactly.

We didn't stay in the Excel spreadsheet for very long, you know, maybe the first year.

But we had done those, you know, leveling ups in 2020, 2021, especially, you know, kind of as we were going through the pandemic time, just realizing that we need some different tools, we need to work differently, need to collaborate differently.

But now it's 2026 and man, we have grown a lot. The types of projects we're being invited to work on, they're much larger, much more is at stake. The expectation is there.

I feel it. Becky, you probably feel it too, right? Sure do.

When people are calling us up, I don't know, it's such an honor and I love the vibe that I'm getting, but they're like, oh, we got to call Middle of Six. So then my response is, oh, well, we have to do an amazing job.

There's a little less fake it till you make it or winging it in the very early days. Right now we have-

We've made it. We're just making it and keeping on making it.

Exactly. Yeah. So sorry.

It's like, I don't know if our listeners are like, if I'm being clear or they can follow this, but basically, for the last five years, we've been working with the tools and the processes we had, and it was time in 2025, let's step up a big step.

Trying to step further than we need to, not just solve the immediate problem, but what can be a solution that's for the next five years? And that has been awesome. It's tricky.

It's hard. You have to think through things. I'm sure lots of companies have been out there trying to institute new systems and that change management is not easy, but it's so worth it.

And I can already tell it's going well. It's just the start, honestly, of other things that can be dialed in. So yeah, 2025 was like tear everything apart.

And 2026 is like bring it all together so that we can keep doing our good stuff.

Demolition, renovation. We're back to AEC. Yeah, again.

It affects our lives in so many ways. So as a very successful woman, a small business owner, attention everyone. How cool is that?

What do you think has been like the hardest thing that you've had to overcome just since you started being a business owner?

Hmm, that is the hardest thing I've had to overcome. I know, this question is the hardest.

It's been so easy. It's just been a complete brief. That's why folks, this is why she can't come up with an answer because Wendy just like wakes up in the morning and just accidentally runs a successful business.

Well, and I feel like I've said this before.

I feel really honored that other people who are like looking to go out on their own or whatever, like they'll come and pick my brain or we'll have coffee, we'll talk through the process.

So I'm sure I've said this before, if not on the podcast, but people will tell you, like be prepared. When you're running a business, things are gonna go wrong. They're gonna go really wrong.

It's fine, you'll get through it or whatever. And I feel like I spent the first, whatever, three or four or five years at Middle of Six bracing, like what's gonna fail? They told me, it's gonna...

Something big is gonna happen. It's gonna be terrible. Watch out.

I don't know. Made me very nervous. I was like, what is this thing that's gonna blindside us?

And knock on wood, we really haven't had that experience. And I used to think maybe it was just luck. Like, whoa, whoa, okay, that didn't happen.

But actually, I wanna give us all the whole Middle of Six team a bit more credit than just luck.

That it is, the thing about running a successful business is that you start where you are, and you build in some processes, and you figure it out, and you figure out how to pay the B&O tax, and you, whatever.

You go through it, and the challenges are big to you, but other people are doing it. And so, you build out the resources, you figure it out, and then they become small, and they just become part of how you're running the business, right?

You don't even have to think about it so much. And every step along the way, you build out things, or at least, maybe I shouldn't assume that everyone does this.

The way we've done it is that, you know, we are thoughtful, intentional, and we try to carve out the time and figure it out, and write the new job description, and, you know, whatever it might be.

The thing, we're just, we're tackling that, and then that is in the bank of our experience that we can draw from. And in 2025, with all of that change, as the leadership team, so many times we would get together and like, you know, good job.

Like, Pat's on the back, because you gotta pat yourself on the back sometimes. Like, good job, everybody. You know, we did it.

We went through that. We got that sorted out. We figured it out.

And it's a testament to some of the things that we do as a leadership team, and kind of with the rest of the Middle of Six team to make sure that we're like being organized.

And I don't know, I don't feel like this is a very good, I'm not giving a very good example. Becky, tell me, you know, is this making sense?

No, I mean, I think it is surprising though, because all you ever hear is like, you know, small businesses, most of them go under within like six months or something like that, right? Like you're just, you're crazy to start a business.

The timing when you started the business, I think a lot of people would say was bizarre. And it's just, it's such an outlier that it has gone so well that we have run so smoothly.

And I think, obviously, that's a testament to you and your leadership style, because you keep telling us like, your North Star is like, we want to enjoy our jobs. We want to have fun.

We want to, you know, like just this sort of like people first kind of feeling that we have. And I think, I think that's why we're so successful, because that attracts people who are really good at their jobs, you know, and that's what we've got.

We're just so wonderful, it's just.

I also think that from my perspective, a lot of that is also just a consequence of like the strategic thinking, the deliberateness, every time, like exactly what Wendy was just talking about, like saying like, oh, 2026 is going to be the year that we

like blow it up and put it back together. It's time to step up our game. It's time to reinvent our processes, reinvest in our tools.

You see that in the way Middle of Six invests in its people and the hiring process and the way people are treated, what I've seen is there's always just such a high level of detail and care and strategy and thoughtfulness put into things.

So when you actually do stop to take your time and think things through both from a short and a long term perspective, I think from where I'm sitting, that's where I kind of see like the avoidance of those pitfalls coming into play because things are

just very well thought out, very well communicated. We don't do anything rashly or in the moment. It's always a thorough discussion. Other team members are brought in when it's appropriate.

So that's my two cents from sitting on the sidelines and just watching it happen over the years.

And you have been sitting on the sidelines from really early on. So you saw the early stuff, which I would not say.

Oh, I've been faking it. Yeah.

It doesn't feel like that early stuff was chaotic or disorganized. It's just we were where we were at that point. It was great, right?

And we would never go back there. We outgrew that and we left that behind. There was nothing wrong with it.

But we built every piece of this business and the way we work and our team. And here we are now. So it puts you in a good spot.

And having the vision or even the humility to say like, okay, this is great.

We just did a website discovery session with a client. It went super well. And we have all these tools that we have in place, but what's the next evolution?

How do we either up our technology or up our process or always improving around the margins, not being complacent with like, well, it's worked three times in a row, so it's gonna work the fourth and the fifth time, like saying, no, how do we get out

in front of this and how do we kind of push that progress and that improvement without being like forced to do it, being more proactive, more forward thinking than that.

What were the early days like, Kyle, what was early Wendy like back in the very, because you were there from the very beginning and I wasn't.

I don't know, I don't think Wendy's changed all that much.

I mean, she's always been super steady, super on top of things. I mean, it was a huge reason why, when I came on to the firm as whatever, the first full-time employee, it was like, I know we've talked about it when he was like, oh, it's so scary.

Like now I'm responsible for this person and I've got to pay someone a salary and health benefits and they've got a family and all this stuff. And I've known Wendy for a while before I joined here and my wife's known Wendy.

And I remember just having that discussion with my wife and it's like, well, it's Wendy, right? I'm not worried about that. I never had those concerns.

So if that was happening, it was always happening on Wendy's end of the things, never on mine. I'm like, well, yeah, this is definitely a place to invest in. Like, it's going to be great.

I've noticed neither one of you are ever stressed out.

Like you seem both of you, even under absolute crazy deadlines, like just wild, wild conditions. Both of you are just cool as a cucumber all the time.

26:27

Team Culture

I would love to know, how in the hell do you manage to make it at least seem like you just never get stressed out by anything?

I'll speak for myself. Lie through your teeth and don't let anybody ever know what's really going on.

Kyle, we're supposed to be vulnerable and real. That is not what they are supposed to say.

That's great advice.

No.

I think a big part of it is the tools, the internal tools and the internal communication that we have in place. Again, everyone is very cognizant of workload. It's something that's constantly discussed.

We check in on it weekly, if not daily, making sure that people are comfortable with their workload, that people have the resources that they need.

If someone needs additional assistance, we rally the troops and get people where they need to be to execute on projects. But I mean, that being said, there's always moments of stress, right?

And especially, I think, working from home and being remote, there have been quite a bit of ebbs and flows or ups and downs, right?

You're going to have your stressful months, but I think part of it is also remembering that, well, it's going to be stressful for a while, but we're going to get through it. And then, it's going to be a little less stressful.

It's going to be busy for a while, and it's going to be less busy. And that's kind of the game, and that's kind of the way things go. And I mean, I kind of, sometimes I'll be vulnerable.

Sometimes I have to tell myself like, hey man, like you've done it before, you're going to do it again. Like, oh, it's time to write a new website. It's like, oh gosh, no, don't, I can't do it.

I'm done. I'll never write another word again. But it's kind of remembering like, well, you felt like this before, and you did it.

And so just because you're feeling it now, you can still do it. Like we have that track record and we have that backbone of resources and team to lean on to get through those kinds of things.

But yeah, I mean, sometimes you're just stressed and you just keep it to yourself.

Becky, you've told me before that you're like, oh, you're so calm and collected and everything. And I'm like, I don't feel that way. So I just want to be honest.

I know, I feel the same way.

I'm like, who the heck are you talking about?

I've had people in my circle in the past where, especially in like work circles, where I was like, oh, I so admire them. Look at how just calm and even keeled they are.

I aspire to be that way because I feel like I, I don't know, I feel like I'm a kind of high energy person. I talk fast, I'm moving around, can't get my words straight.

Can confirm.

Okay, I wish I could be different. I'm telling everyone, I was like, oh, I just wish I could be so poised. And I feel like it looks like sort of unprofessional or not like as mature as I should be.

I don't know, like I am critical of that element. So it's funny, Becky, you're like, you're telling me that I'm calm, I'm not stressed out. And at the same time, I have this like high energy, which to me like feels like stress.

So I don't know, I guess maybe I'm just, I am who I am. That is just who I am. I don't try to be anyone different.

Wonderful.

That is great. Happy to hear that.

Well, I think that's also, that's also a great point is not only does Middle of Six openly communicate about workload, and if someone is feeling overwhelmed or stressed, we are encouraged and empowered to raise our hand and say like, hey man, I'm

having a really tough week. Like I need to put my head down. I need help with these other projects because I can't focus on all this stuff at the exact same time. Like, can someone help me with this?

Can someone help me with that? So that's a huge part of it too, is just like the culture of being encouraged to speak up and be vulnerable with your teammates and to know that you're not going to be punished because you're stressed out.

You're not going to be punished because you're busy. There's always a solution that can be found and to know that leadership and the rest of the team, we're all kind of in it together in that way.

Truly, yeah. I mean, I can't tell you how many times I've had just sat down with Wendy and just worked through, like I've got too much going on. I have lost the plot.

I'm freaking out, man.

I don't know how I'm going to get this done.

And we have gone through my calendar day by day and picked it apart until I felt less insane. It's wonderful to be able to do that, to not have to keep that in, regardless.

I mean, if you want to lie, lie, but at Middle of Six, we don't have to pretend everything's okay. And we will help each other out.

Absolutely. And to what Wendy just said, that's another huge reason why I've enjoyed working here and continue to work here and remain very loyal and positive about this place is, we are encouraged to be ourselves, right?

Like Wendy, honestly, you don't come off as high energy and super anxious or anything like that. You're just yourself, right?

And especially at this phase in my career, like I've felt so relieved to be encouraged to be myself and to find my niche and to find my communication style and how I interact with my teammates and how I interact with clients.

And I've never been discouraged from being my true authentic self, you know, for better or for worse.

But, you know, you're not like getting on to these calls or getting into these meetings and being like, oh, like, who do I have to pretend to be today?

We have that confidence in our capabilities, but we also have that confidence in ourselves and in our personalities that, like, again, it's worked before it's going to work again, like where everyone's individual personality isn't for everyone.

But there is nothing about Middle of Six. It's like, oh, pretend to be something you're not, or put on a mask and behave a certain way.

Like, we are encouraged to be ourselves, and we are all our own unique little snowflake weirdos, and some weirder than others. We just kind of do our thing, right?

Truly, my favorite thing about here, I got to say, I've never... Wendy, it makes me laugh that you think that you're unprofessional and immature when I'm a literal child, Wendy. Like, come on.

I can't believe that at no point have you never told me to grow up and calm down and stop being weird. And it's wonderful because then I can come up with weird ideas and say weird things. And clients like that a lot of the time.

We have fun. It's nice to take the pressure off by joking around a little bit and doing fun things. And I think that's just...

It's so great for us as people, but it's also so good for business because that making those weird people feel safe is how you attract really creative people who are really good at what they do.

Well, and I think more often than not, clients want to interact with real people, right? Like they don't want you to show up on the Zoom in a suit and tie with your perfectly bulleted pointed, talking points all the time, right?

I feel like even we've experienced maybe starting off in a relationship with a client, we're kind of like, oh, you know, how's this gonna go? Are we gonna match? Are we gonna vibe?

And I think the more that we are just ourselves, the more I've even seen us like win people over, gain that trust and just be allowed to be ourselves and to do it our way because ultimately, right?

Like the proof is in the pudding and the proof is in like the production and the execution of the work.

It's good pudding.

And the more you're able to like, oh, it's such good pudding. The more you're able to be like yourself and articulate yourself in an authentic way, like I think it makes the whole process more enjoyable for everybody.

I think it loosens everybody up, both us and clients to kind of say like, hey, we can enjoy this process. Like we don't have to be like 10 out of 10 professional, super buttoned up all the time.

Like we can be people doing fun, good, creative work, and it doesn't have to be a drag. Like it can actually be enjoyable.

Yeah. In hearing you say that, Kyle, it makes me think about we say this in some of our proposals to clients, or we probably is on our website, but we say we're bringing a fresh perspective. That's a very common thing for a consultant to say.

But now in like hearing this little conversation between you and Becky, I realized that part of that fresh perspective is not just because we're on the side and we're like, oh, here's what we would advise on this.

It's like, no, we're actually a fresh perspective because we are a group of people who are vibing together, can build off of each other. And there's something, the sum is way greater than the parts because of that safe culture that we have.

So those are amazing things. And it's not that it's so unique to Middle of Six. This could be something that any team could have, but it takes, I don't know, you have to decide that this is really important.

And we're going to build a team and make this happen. So that's a whole different podcast that we could talk about some more. We won't get into that now, but.

We should.

Yeah, there's just, it doesn't have to be unique to Middle of Six, but I think that that does allow for that fresh perspective.

And Becky, I'm never going to tell you to grow up or be different ever.

Becky, are you wearing pajama pants right now?

I am 100,000% wearing pajama pants right now.

Yeah.

Yeah. I love it.

I am wearing sweatpants, so. That is our vibe.

Hand up.

Leggings.

The children are taking over the podcast.

Yeah, baby.

You gotta be comfortable. We're sitting here for like 10 hours. Yeah.

Come on.

Comfort is key. That's my tip for all the AEC marketers. Get comfortable.

Do whatever it takes. Well, this has been great fun, and I feel drunk with power that I have seized control of the podcast. But I think shorter form podcasting might be more for me.

Hint, hint, hint. Wendy, do you want to do the outro? You can have it back.

It's fine. It's whatever.

36:30

Dream Job Realized

Oh, yeah.

Well, Becky, thank you for taking over. This was so fun. I loved it.

I was nervous. I'm like, I don't know. Do people want to hear anything?

Or what do we have to say? But if there's a takeaway that I would share with everyone out there, is your work can feel amazing. It can be inspiring.

You can work with people you trust, appreciate, respect, and all of that. So if you're dreaming big or if you're looking ahead to the future, set a goal for that. That's awesome.

You deserve it. We work so hard. Go and make your work environment or whatever the best it can be, because it's totally possible.

So I feel lucky. This is my favorite kind of podcast, because I just now feel so happy. I feel really good.

Did we just do therapy together?

I think we did.

We did.

I feel good too.

And to our listeners, this is not an unusual conversation, I have to say.

It's not.

We do this all the time. We meet every day and have a huddle, and it can go this direction. We have one-on-ones.

It can go this direction, and we just care about each other very personally. And I so appreciate everyone's contributions to this, because it is, Becky, you didn't ask me about my dream job, but this is my dream job. This is my dream job.

It's so amazing.

I'm not even going to, and as a planner and a perfectionist who loves to think about the next thing and get the next trip booked on the calendar, whatever, I am trying really hard to not think about anything different related to Middle of Six.

It's like, this is amazing. You know, it doesn't mean that we're not going to grow and change and have new adventures and new opportunities in front of us.

But like, I think that there can be a little, it's good to live in the present and appreciate what you have and not always be so pushing, you know, that you just don't appreciate the people and what we're doing right now.

So, that I think is maybe a great spot to wrap up today, you know, today's podcast. And thank you, Becky, for taking over. And Kyle, it's always fun to have you on the mic too.

So, thanks, everybody.

Thank you guys. Good time.

Absolutely. Thank you.

The Shortlist is presented by Middle of Six. Our producer is Kyle Davis with digital marketing support by the team at Middle of Six. If you're looking for past episodes or more info, check out our podcast page at middleofsix.com/theshortlist.

You can follow us on LinkedIn and Instagram at Middle of Six. Be sure to subscribe so you don't miss an episode. Until next time, keep on hustling.

Bye.

I don't even know what we just did, but we did it.

That was a really good chat, and I feel like there is so much more than I want to talk about.

But yeah, that was really good conversation.

The Shortlist is a podcast that explores all things AEC marketing. Hosted by Middle of Six Principal, Wendy Simmons, each episode features members of the MOS team, where we take a deep dive on a wide range of topics related to AEC marketing including: proposal development, strategy, team building, business development, branding, digital marketing, and more. You can listen to our full archive of episodes here.