The Shortlist Episode 80: Getting a Grip on Your Business (or Department) with Traction

What does it take to run a successful business? In this episode of The Shortlist, Wendy Simmons and Melissa Richey unpack one of their most-referenced books: Traction by Gino Wickman.

They explore how the Entrepreneurial Operating System (EOS) provides a practical framework for clarity, accountability, and growth, specifically for AEC leaders and small to mid-sized firms.

In this episode, we dive into the six key components of the system—Vision, People, Data, Issues, Process, and Traction—alongside essential tools like the VTO, Rocks, the Accountability Chart, and Level 10 Meetings. We also explore the specific marketing impact of this framework, discussing how EOS helps teams shift from reactive task management to proactive, quarterly priorities.

Whether you fully adopt the system or just borrow a few tools, this conversation offers tangible ways to align your team and gain real momentum.

CPSM CEU Credits: 0.5 | Domain: 6

Podcast Transcript

Welcome to The Shortlist. We're exploring all things AEC marketing to help your firm win The Shortlist.

I'm your host, Wendy Simmons, and today I'm talking with Middle of Six principal, Melissa Richey, about one of our most read and reread and referenced page through dog-eared, sticky noted business books that we have on the shelf at Middle of Six.

It's called Traction by Gino Wickman. If you haven't read that book or come across it in your travels, it is a guide, a how-to step-by-step process for working through the Entrepreneurial Operating System or EOS.

We started using this in the very earliest days of Middle of Six, and it's been an incredible resource for us as we've grown the business, from just a small group to the team that we have now, and because it comes up in conversations with our clients

that might be using it, or also we feel like there are some very applicable applications for AEC marketers within their firms, we thought it'd be good to dig in and share a little bit about how we've used it, and just tell you about our journey. But

before we get in deep on EOS and Traction, I'd like Melissa to do a little reintroduction. I know she's been on so many episodes, all the way back from episode one in 2021 when we started the podcast, and people are very familiar with Melissa.

But Melissa, if you don't mind, just give our listeners an overview about all the things that you do at Middle of Six, so that they can put that into context also about running the business and why a book like Traction could be so helpful.

I'm Melissa Richey. I am a Principal Marketing Strategist here at Middle of Six. I started here in January of 2020, so coming up on six years here before too long.

What do I do at Middle of Six?

Well, as a Principal, I get to be a part of almost everything in the company, from working with Wendy and Susan to run the business using this Traction Entrepreneurial Operating System framework, to business development strategy and execution.

That means planning what we're going to pursue, what our goals are, meeting with new clients, scoping and pricing new projects, and sharing our expertise through things like being on the podcast or presenting at SMPS conferences and chapters, to

working on projects. So that could be proposal production and management, to an interview prep, to new websites and brand refreshes, client perception surveys training.

So I really get to get my fingers in every bit of the business, from running it to the operations piece, to working with our clients.

Yeah, you could go on and on because you touch every facet of the business at Middle of Six and you have been a partner to me from the moment you started looking at how can we best run Middle of Six.

I think we both were, I don't know, had it at our core that we wanted to not only run a successful business because that felt less stressful than running something that was chaotic, but also just to create a path that would have longevity.

This is like a huge big chapter in our careers, right? Coming to Middle of Six and doing this, so you could run it many ways. We wanted to be solid, to have metrics to fall on.

I feel like if it's not a spoiler alert, I will say when we read Traction, one of the things we learned right away was that we were maybe a little too small.

We were ambitious about the kind of business we wanted to build, and so we jumped into something like the Entrepreneurial Operating System.

But then there were many times when we realized, we're like, oh, well, maybe when we have five employees, that will be applicable or whatever it might be. So yeah, thank you for everything that you do at Middle of Six.

It's so great because of your leadership and your dedication, the fact that you read this book probably actually before you started. Maybe it was on that break in between coming on board and jumped right in, and we've never stopped.

We never look back. We just keep doing it. And it's actually maybe a great takeaway is that it can really work and be long lasting.

Absolutely.

So I feel like because I love to just jump too far ahead too fast.

Let's just talk for a second about what traction, what that system means.

I don't have a formal definition written out in front of me, but the way I describe it on the fly to people who might ask, or maybe a new team member who's like, I keep hearing that word traction.

What does that mean if they haven't had the primer that we will give to team members as they're onboarded longer, is that it's a system for small, medium-sized businesses.

And it follows this principle that if you have these six core areas working as intended, like they're gaining momentum, you're checking in in these six areas that you will gain traction.

You will be able to kind of grow your business and have control. Well, actually, I think the book, what does it say? Get a grip on your business.

So that's what they're suggesting that we would get. And I feel like we have found that in many ways. So those six areas is vision.

Everyone is aligned, they understand the vision, what the vision is, and they're aligned on it or moving in that direction. People, we say this a lot because the book says it a lot, but the right people and right seats.

So we'll probably get to talk a little bit about what that actually means in practice. The data of running a business, so Melissa and I had the really fun task of answering the question.

If you were on a desert island and you could only get a report with a handful of items, what would those numbers say? So that you could have peace of mind, that sort of thing.

So we'll share our journey on figuring out what the right data points were for Middle of Six issues. So what are the current issues that you're tackling?

And just kind of making sure you're approaching it, because I think many things could be issues where they really aren't. So having a way to address those items that come up in the business, running a business, processes.

It's really good to have SOPs. And it has served us well to create them and refresh them. And so, you know, making sure you've kind of covered your organization with processes.

And then Traction is like accountability, the communication, the cadence of how we meet and report that basically goes right back to that accountability piece, keeps everyone moving forward without getting a grip.

So super high level of those six categories. I think we want to like dig into each one today and share a little bit of the philosophy behind it.

And then also, because it's totally our style, the Middle of Six way is we're always fine tuning and we also have customized a lot to make this work for us.

So we're going to share that because maybe that's helpful for any other people who have read Traction or, you know, gotten into the book or might be considering it. So, Melissa, why would this be a topic for an AEC marketing podcast?

Can you share any ideas of why you think this could be valuable information to folks who would be our clients or other people out there listening?

Well, it's often a thing we encounter that AEC firms are maybe having a little bit of struggle with keeping people accountable or getting the follow through or getting their heads out of the client work to concentrate on how they're running their

business. I think a lot of folks that own AEC companies were some sort of entrepreneur that decided to start this business, and that's really what Traction's framework is about, is it's the entrepreneurial operating system.

So some visionary person thought, I'm a great architect or I'm a great engineer, I should have my own firm to do this, but maybe they didn't have the background in business to have gone to business school or have an emphasis on that in their career.

And so it gives a really good framework that you can apply piece by piece. So I think that's one thing that's nice. I think another helpful theory in Traction is that there's kind of two main people that are meant to run a business.

One is the entrepreneur who they call the visionary, and they need a strong partner in the integrator.

So I like that, that it's acknowledging that there are strengths of people, and even though you may be strong and you can do all of those, like Wendy was doing both, I kept saying, well, Wendy, you can't be both.

And she was right.

So I think that is a helpful framework that you can't do it all as the person who has thought of having this business, who's doing the work and delivering the work.

So you do need a good, strong partner to be your integrator, the person that's making sure all those systems are running and documenting that data and all of the things that we're going to get into today.

I think one of the other reasons is since we're a marketing, AEC marketing podcast, that sometimes our friends in marketing feel like, I don't know what the vision of the company is, or I don't know what the goals are.

So this gives what they call their Vision Traction Organizer.

It's basically like a two-page business plan of how to run your company so it can give marketing folks a view of where you're going and where you're heading so then they can make goals around marketing around that.

I think those are some of the great things. I guess one of the other things I can say is that you get this language and so then you start hearing other people say that. So if I have heard someone say getting traction or write people right seats.

So those sorts of, sometimes I hear those words and I say, oh, are you guys using traction to run your business?

And I can think of at least two of our clients that are, and I think there's probably more in the industry, but you're a small to mid-size firm, I feel like it's a really good actionable plan that's not theory.

It is like you can start reading it and start picking away at different elements of those six areas that Wendy covered at the top of this show here pretty almost immediately.

Yeah, I think my first pass on reading the book happened to be on vacation because that's sometimes when you get to do the homework part of running a business is when you have a little peace and quiet and I was reading it and I got my pencil out

right away and I started jotting down notes, writing things right in the book. I don't know that they tout it as a workbook, but it absolutely can function in that way where you can get some initial ideas down.

Also, my experience was, Melissa, you probably had the same experience.

We've talked about this before where in going to that initial pass and deciding this is something that could be useful for our small business, it was enlightening, it was interesting, it was exciting to see how much alignment there is with having a

Yeah.

I did not expect to see that.

I thought, I know about graphic design and construction or whatever. I know these different things.

But because a lot of marketers are doing messaging, understanding what the values and the vision and the culture of their company, that is woven throughout Traction.

You start with figuring out, what are your three uniques or in AEC marketing, we call them our differentiators, right? But they're really similar.

These things are foundational to the kind of work and strategy and guidance Melissa and I are applying for our business and for our clients. We're doing that.

So that was, I guess, another way to underscore how immediately helpful going through Traction was. Then how many times would you say you've read the book?

Maybe not cover to cover, but how many times are you like, I got to go back, I need to go and read Chapter 5.

I am confident I've read it cover to cover twice and then gone back in and reread sections, a half dozen times at least before we're having our leadership retreat, I'll often go back to it or even if we're feeling stuck on, what is the thing about

the numbers we're supposed to set? You go back and read it and you're like, oh yeah, that's right. Probably already had it highlighted because mine is very highlighted.

Right. Yeah, same. I think the same answer.

I know two times because the first time I read it, I was really excited and I was like, we need to go through this together.

And the next time I read it cover to cover was like, I don't know, Middle of Six was now six years old or something, just kind of pulling a number out of the air.

But where we grew, like I said earlier, we're in the beginning, maybe we're a little too small to make it work. How do you make an org chart with Melissa, Wendy, and Kyle? It was a strange org chart, but that's what we had at the time.

And we always had that vision to grow, right? So a lot of that first pass was that's where we were then. And it was really nice to go through it with some perspective and to realize, oh, we can do this now, or this does make sense for us.

And maybe if your firm's already that size, it'll just be immediately 100% applicable, which is kind of cool.

And that even too, if you're a marketer listening thinking, oh, maybe this episode isn't for me, because you can take bits and pieces and apply it.

I also think at a department level, as your marketing department, you could use some of the strategies and approaches in Traction to run your marketing department.

Such a good idea. Good thought.

I was part of a large general contracting firm at one point in my career, where I feel like there was enough marketing and enough, we were supporting enough of the business that we could have used Traction as like a department.

You know, when you have 12 people, that is larger than the middle of 16, you know, that way. You could really get organized and be thoughtful about what you're reporting out.

You're just going to scale or funnel the data in a little bit of a different way than business-wise.

Melissa, what do you think about talking about some of the tools, just kind of getting into that piece of it?

Yeah.

Because like I mentioned, we use some of them religiously. We definitely make sure it's part of our cadence and some things we kind of use as a reference point in the back of our mind, right? Yes, that's a helpful tool to pull out when you need it.

So I don't know, maybe you think of one of your top tools. I feel like we're going to be overlapping all the time here. And I'll start off with that VTO that you just mentioned, the Vision Traction Organizer.

Side note, that's not the name I would give it as a marketing person. It totally works. Sorry, Gino Wickman.

I don't mean to throw you any shade. It just when you say VTO, it doesn't mean that much to me. But it's the Vision Traction Organizer.

And I think it starts off as something like a couple pages of content with these prompts that you would list what your vision is, what your core values are, what your focus is, any long-term goals.

Like you, you know, it's got room for all of these things. I think our VTO has grown beyond those two pages because in the early days, we were exploring and doing some wordsmithing and trying to figure out what is our core focus or those items.

And in our most recent pass on the VTO, we were actually adding like sub bullets to further explain why our differentiators really work the way they do, why that special, not so much our values, because that was kind of developed outside of Traction

and we still kind of vet them and everything, but adding more detail about why that matters to our clients and how it supports our business. So if you go to Traction website, which I did not have off the top of my head, but if you went to it, and

Melissa's probably gonna go find it for me really quick, but they have tools available. You can just download these resources.

I mean, at the time we downloaded them, they were free, and actually now we have a login, so we can go in there and we can update a lot of this content and it is now stored online. So we have this historical record.

But we have ended up ultimately building these into PowerPoint decks so that we could expand and edit and explore, because as we mentioned, we revisit the VTO every year at our principal's strategic planning retreat, and then we share it and also get

feedback at our team strategic retreat. So it gets brought up, it wasn't like a strategic plan that you do, and then you put it aside and you never look at it. We look at it at least two times a year and more if needed.

Yeah, and that website is EOS, as in Entrepreneurial Operating System, if I can get it out, eosworldwide.com. Awesome. It doesn't roll off the tongue, that's why we call it EOS.

I think another important piece on the VTO is that it wants you to define what the niche of your business is, which that was another one where, you know, a whole chapter about that.

So many businesses don't have a niche and they're trying to be everything to everybody, and that, of course, was not the case at Middle of Six.

We already had our niche of AEC marketing, but maybe you work at an engineering or architecture firm and you feel like you've got kind of this scattered shotgun approach.

I mean, that is part of this kind of almost two-page business plan, is defining the niche. What's your market? Who are you going after?

Who are you targeting? So I think that's another great aspect of the VTO.

Yeah, and I also just, you know, love that it has been able to grow with us. There's a line on the VTO that's called, it says, Your Guarantee.

And I always struggle with this, and I struggled with it in the book too, because it felt very appliance sales person. I don't know. You scarred salesman.

I don't know. I was like, we guarantee, you'll never find a better, like I just really had a hard time with that word.

But as we wrestled with it and thought about what made sense for us and Middle of Six, we saw the value in basically having a statement that we could stand behind, that we could say to clients, that we could say to our team.

It's not the same as your mission vision values. It doesn't fall into that category. It's a little bit more of a hybrid, almost acting like the start of a elevator pitch or whatever, but we help AEC firms win.

That is what we... And again, I hung up on that dang word guarantee, but it is what drives us, and I think that is at the heart of what they're getting at. What can your team say?

And know that that's what we're going for. We are really trying to do that, and we can't control everything, but that remains, even today, still our guarantee is where we landed.

So maybe any good workbook or session that pushes you, there may be things that you just don't fit right away, but I would encourage you to keep working on it, keep thinking, see it from a different perspective because it's actually now very core to

us. And it would take a lot for us to change that guarantee.

Yeah, I know. I think our issue with the word guarantee is too much legal. It reviewed our proposal and said you can't use that word in your proposal, so we're all scarred.

Yeah, I know, right?

It does feel hard to say, but we guarantee it at least with our hearts. That is really where we're at. So yeah, lots of good stuff on the VTO.

Melissa, what then would be one of your other favorite tools in the Traction Toolkit?

Well, I find the people element to be really helpful in taking away a bit of the emotion around it.

I think with recruiting and terminations and promotions and all of those things, we're all people, we hopefully like the team that we work with. So it's hard to not have that emotion in it.

So the kind of short description of people is getting the right people in the right seats. And the way that you evaluate that is pretty simple, but do they get it, they want it and have the capacity to do it.

So when you use those three criteria, it enlightens you in a way. So and even the scoring system is a plus, a plus minus, which kind of means like you kind of do, you kind of don't or there's room for growth.

And then a minus is that that person doesn't have that. So I find that to be a pretty clear and straightforward way to look at if this person, are they doing the right thing at the job?

Maybe it's just that they aren't in the right role, but there is a different role for them that they would be better suited for. So that's one that I've personally found to be pretty helpful.

Yeah, that language, right people, right seats has been helpful for me in communicating to our team.

It just feels very natural, and it feels genuine to how we run Middle of Six, that that is important, that we want to find the right seat, and we hope we have it, and there have been many occasions where we made that seat, because we had the right

Yeah, I'm thinking about an example at a firm.

There's plenty of anecdotes throughout the Traction book that talks about stories at other businesses that Gino Wickman has consulted with, or the different EOS consultants that they work with.

So there's lots of stories in there, but even if somebody wants to do it, they have the capacity, but they don't get it, maybe it's like a training issue that they just don't get what the role of moving from project engineer five is to project

manager. So it's a matter of, okay, we just need to train them on how to be a project manager. So I think it's just really revealing when you take this tactic at looking at who's on your team and getting them in the right spot.

Well, another tool that I think has been helpful for us, and just I'm so impressed that we just continue to do it without missing anything is Traction outlines a meeting pulse for how frequently certain groups are supposed to get together.

And whether it's look at the VTO or doing the people analyzing components or whatever it might be, you know, there is a cadence when we very first started. We didn't need as much of that cadence, but we absolutely grew into it.

And that's why I say I'm really proud that now, when I look back and I will do it as a gut check or like a confirmation to me, as we're planning our annual retreaters and I was like, I got to look at the meeting polls and make sure, are we covering

everything that we're supposed to? Because I have that much trust in the system that if we make time for this at a retreat, which could be taken over by so many other great fun, interesting activities.

But if we make time for everything that's on that meeting pulse, then we stay on course, right? So critical. So the meeting pulse is something that it's somewhat prescriptive, although we had to modify in the beginning.

And I want to kind of lump something else into this tool component, which is the level 10 meeting. And at Middle of Six, we have just started to call that Traction. That's what we call it.

We call it our Traction meeting. It could be principles meeting. That's what it used to be called.

It could be leadership team. I don't know, whatever. But we liked that we understood it was Traction.

And it is very structured. And we live and die by that agenda. Melissa, as someone who has sat in 300 of those Traction meetings or anything, I mean, I could share lots about that.

But any thoughts about why that meeting has served us so well?

It keeps us on track. We make sure that we're covering the topics. It gives you an agenda, tells you how you start the meeting.

And a little bit of what we've tweaked is, okay, we're covering these items at the first one, and then the second one, we're getting into more of these other items.

But it makes sure that we're looking at the data as we're supposed to, that we're checking in on progress on all of the different elements of Traction.

So I think it just kind of puts that accountability in there, which that's part of the point of Traction.

Yeah, like every meeting is supposed to have an agenda. I think that's just been something beaten into us. It's a good best practice, right?

Everyone knows what to expect, and I don't think we're perfect about it, but it's pretty nice that for our business meetings, we are perfect about it. We know exactly what we're going to talk about. We may not make it through the whole agenda.

There may be something that's really pressing that really kind of needs to come to the top, but you don't have to spend the energy and effort recreating that every time wondering, well, what's the most important thing now?

I mean, it's just been very, very efficient for us. And every meeting under the Traction umbrella should start with a segue. So we do that with the leadership team.

We're meeting every other week. And we have, sometimes I can't remember what we got from EOS and what we also just sort of invented because we're interesting, creative people. We put things in there.

But we decided to, for the segue, have three questions. You know, like, what's working? What's not working at Middle of Six?

Kind of that. You know, best news in the last 90 days. They say 90 days in the book because that would be your, like, quarterly meeting cadence.

But I mean, we might be meeting every other week or, you know, might be different, but we still put it out there. Best news of the last 90 days. And expectations for the day.

And, you know, that one maybe isn't hit on very often, but I'll tell you, it definitely comes up at our annual retreat when we say, okay, let's expectations for the day. And it's lovely to hear what people want to get out of something.

And you kind of get some insights to what they might be nervous about, what they're excited for, what's driving them to not be working with clients for a few days and, you know, get a backup of work to do just to make this time together, whatever it

is. And for the principles, it's really nice. We just use, you could answer one of the three questions. And it feels like we always get a sense of what's on people's minds by doing the segue.

Other elements in that level 10 meeting is that it's important to look at your scorecard. So we, or KPIs, you know, same thing. But, you know, we look at that, you know, as part of that level 10 meeting agenda.

That's the set thing. And back to what I was doing in the opening, right? If you're on an island and you could only have a few data points about your business, what would you want to look at?

So take a peek at that. And then we get to what Traction calls the issues list. And that was one of the top six categories is issues, right?

So you're always keeping a pulse on what is working or not working at the company.

Yes. And they even, of course, have a formula for how you even define what an issue is. Because sometimes you think something's a problem or an issue and it's actually not.

So they, it's called IDS. I is identify, D is discuss and S is solve. I mean, they make it sound like it's so simple.

But it is, again, a nice framework. So we have a one note where we track those and you have the general, what you think the problem is and we spend time identifying what we think is going on.

And then we discuss it and then we start putting in points to solve it. And it's a nice writing list because one, you can look back and see the things that happened.

And maybe even one meeting you think, okay, this is maybe an issue even have them out in the margin where we're like, I'm not sure if this is quite to the level of an issue yet, but we're going to put it on there and then we can talk about it.

And sometimes it's like, you know what, actually, now that we've talked about it, I don't think it's an issue. It doesn't belong on the issues list. And it's a good look back.

And then you just kind of keep that running list. And we don't always solve it in one meeting. Sometimes it takes a while.

Sometimes the discussion, we need more data or more information or need to do some things, but it's a good way to not lose track of those things that may be from one week to the next. It's hair on fire. You're really dealing with it.

Maybe you're not the next week, but it doesn't mean it went away. So this is a great way to keep track of those things. We decided to be a little more positive and renamed it Opportunity List instead of Issues List this year.

So that's been a little tweak. So again, great framework, but we also put our own little spin on it at times.

Yeah, well, I mean, we looked at that issues list and we saw that, I don't know, a third of them were definitely opportunities. Like, there's this thing coming up. How do we do this?

How do we get there? What can we do? How can we support this team member?

We had to figure out all this stuff related to it. It's an opportunity. And not to say that the other two-thirds are negative, but they are more like kind of typical business challenges.

Like, we have to change our accounting software. You know, it's like, okay, that's also an opportunity, but some things just don't seem as kind of like shiny and exciting. So I like it.

It's good to keep it positive. It can be a lot of work to run a business, right? Keep that in mind for anyone around you who's doing that.

It's going to be a lot. So to have some positive components to it, and it makes you feel like you're winning and doing well. It's really very helpful.

I feel like that's a good segue over to the old rocks category.

Talk about feeling good about yourself and accomplishing things. All right, Melissa, what's a rock?

So a rock is just a different name for a goal or a priority that you set on these 90-day cycle. So it's the metaphor, if you've maybe seen this from Stephen Covey, you think of a jar that you're trying to fill and you have rocks, pebbles, and sand.

If you put all the little things that aren't as important, like the pebbles and sand in the jar first, and then you try to put the rocks in, they're not going to fit.

But if you put the rocks in the jar first, then you can fill in the voids with the sand and pebbles. So good visual analogy of why they're called rocks, but it's just what you're going to focus on in 90 days. So you can set realistic each quarter.

Maybe it's two, maybe it's four, lesson learned we have is our team gets too ambitious and ends up setting like five or six, and that's too many. So we've tried to tamp it down, at least for our team members, to be two rocks.

And it is so helpful to be able to look back at the end of the year and just look at all the rocks that were accomplished across your team.

And you're just, mine kind of, you know, is in awe of how much the team did because you had this focus in three-month increments of this is what we're going to do. This is what we decided as a priority. And this is what we're going to do.

And you do it together as an entire team. So different people know what one another are doing. And then there's been times where they're like, oh, well, maybe it's something related to the podcast.

So Kyle and Becky are going to work on it together to figure out what are we going to tweak for season five and how are we going to map that out?

We also set annual goals and the rocks for some team members have been a way to piece out how they're going to accomplish that annual goal.

So in the first quarter, say you want to implement a new software program, the first quarter, we're going to set a rock to research all the options that are out there.

Then the second quarter might be the testing phase, where we're going to get a trial for the top two that we identified. Then the third quarter, we're going to do implementation and start rolling it out to the team.

So that's really we love rocks for that reason. It just puts that focus.

It's not this annual goal you set at the beginning of the year, and then you only get checked in maybe once or twice before the end of the year and everyone's scrambling going, oh no, I forgot, it's December. So we have been a big fan of the rocks.

I think rocks are one that even if you're a marketing department, your company is not following this. I think that 90-day cadence of setting your priorities and having your team focus on, it's just a real useful way to get things done.

Yeah, that's a really good overview. Something I've noticed with our team that I just love and does not get old, is the language we have created around rocks as well.

So there will be times when people are reporting out, they're like, I wasn't able to finish that rock, and it just came up, we're like, well, that rock was kind of a boulder. Probably should have been an annual goal or how do we chunk that out?

It's going to take a couple people to carry that rock, who can be a partner in that. Or turns out that was really just a pebble.

I'm going to lump it in with this one because I, every, we got a team of overachievers, and it is really hard to get them to only have two or three rocks, right?

So if they've got a few pebbles also in their bag, feels like we can say, okay, that seems reasonable.

And I don't know, it might seem like a silly thing to be excited about, but it does allow us to, I don't know, connect and laugh and feel better about, I just have never had that experience when I was just talking about goals and annual goals.

This feels daunting and like something I have to do, but the rocks are set by the team, right? They're deciding, what do I want to spend my time on?

Yeah, and we'll have the experience for someone to be like, I was kind of thinking about, I want to do this or why don't we do that? And someone will be like, sounds like you've got your rock for next quarter.

It's just giving us good language and way to think about how we're going to accomplish all the things we want to do of all the things we could do.

Yeah, exactly. And we encourage, it doesn't always work out, but rocks can also be related to professional development, some personal growth in there.

It might be that you want to attend a conference or write something or learn something, whatever it might be. So we've had over the years, lots of people wanting to take a course. I want to go and learn this.

And it's absolutely work related. But if we don't carve out the space for it, it's not directly applicable to work. It could be applicable to future work or things that they want to do.

How do you make time for that? If we didn't have a rock, they may never get to go and take that LinkedIn learning course or sign up for the Adobe thing and learn. So that would be a recommendation.

I'm sure that's in the book, but we remind people like, well, is there anything personal you need to work on here?

Yeah. Book you've been meaning to read. We have a book.

I think we probably had a podcast about it, Writing Without Bullshit.

Oh, yes.

Now we just got the explicit rating.

Yeah, exactly. Books are great rocks because then you can know, you're like, hey, I'm actually supposed to carve out some time for this. I could sit on the couch at this moment and read and I'm accomplishing something.

It's good. A few other things that are useful, the EOS has an accountability chart, which looks a lot like an org chart because it's a visual representation of your company, right? So people are, there's some hierarchy there.

But the piece that is important and maybe looks different than your typical accountability chart is that detail related to the role is very important.

I'm like, what are these folks actually accountable to, for, whatever them, however you would say that, what are they accountable to?

And we have put content in there and realized it was so big that we needed to actually kind of like take it out of the org chart format. So we have these boxes. And so the senior marketing strategist, what are they accountable for?

And we have that detail and it starts off with another EOS term, which is everybody has a number. And we have decided what that number is for every team member. All of us have a number in the book.

What they relate it to is if you are the receptionist at a company, your number may be that I answer every call within two rings. That could be their number. There's probably lots of examples.

Maybe if you're doing something very production, you need to finish this many widgets by the end of the day. That's your number. For Middle of Six and probably for a lot of our clients out there, there's a billable utilization target.

That's your number. We also balance our utilization by having the non-billable part be safeguarded.

We want to make sure we have space to be creative and work on Middle of Six projects like a podcast, that sort of thing, and also for accomplishing rocks and things that aren't billable. We protect both sides.

I have a little rabbit trail, but that's on that accountability chart right at the top, what that utilization rate is and then the sub things.

I think in terms of business planning or future state, you can start creating accountability charts for a future state of the business. That's one of the other ways that we've used the accountability chart.

If we want to do these things, how do we grow this organization? I think that's another way.

Yeah.

It does seem like in our Traction PowerPoint deck, we always have current year, next years, and then a span that could be like, in about three or four years, we could look like this and it gets back to that visualization piece of thinking about where

are we going? Is it time? Is it time for that spot? Do we need to make a seat?

That sort of thing. Yeah, a handy tool for sure. And then, maybe to wrap up the tools, otherwise we will be on this podcast all day, is just to talk about the organizational checkup.

That feels like one of the more, when you read a business book, or you like go through a program, having a quiz or something to give yourself a score, feels like the extra value that you're looking for.

You know, not every business book has it, but Traction does. And now with their online portal, you can log in to it. Again, at this point, on the day we were recording it is still free.

It was just available, you know, to sign up, and now we have one for Middle of Six.

And so you can log in there and then add a few people or maybe your whole organization to an email list and push out a request for them to complete the organizational checkup, which is 20-point, 20-question survey, and they get to rank, I can't

remember, is it low to high? One to five or something like that? Does that sound familiar?

I think it's low to high because I'm like seeing.

It's not ABC. It's like, yeah.

No, it's number because you get a numeric score.

I mean, we take this every year. I just want to say in my defense, we do take it every year, but it's been so ingrained in what we do.

I was having a hard time visualizing how the scoring is done, but you give, and I do think it's one to five because I feel like I've seen many times where we're like, oh, they have three or four, like almost there or whatever, that sort of thing,

which is not quite right. But this 20 question survey is great. It pulls from all of the different six areas of traction. So it's covering that.

And like any good survey, kind of covering it from a couple of different directions. So you can't just totally get all the points if you answered it one way here, because you might need to prove it in another question, right? So you go through that.

And the cool thing about being able to push it out to your leadership team or whatever group is taking it is that they're all giving their own opinion. It's their view. What do I know?

What do I think? What was my experience? What do I know what we're working towards, right?

So you're getting their own reality, and then you get this score totaled up between zero and 100. I believe, Traction, do you remember, Melissa, what they say? Like most firms are, it's great if you're like 80, 85, something like that.

Like I think that was the kind of higher, like you're doing pretty well if you're in that range.

Yeah, 85 is like something to celebrate.

That is really great. So I also think they probably say 100 is not possible. Like no company is perfect, right?

It's, I haven't even tried to game the system in that way, to try to get 100. But just knowing that for any of the perfectionists out there, that you aren't probably going to have a score of 100.

You are somewhere on a spectrum of development for your company.

And then I think if you're in those kind of mid or lower quadrants, it's going to show you, well, it will show you no matter what, but it will show you in the six pieces of the pie, which ones are the most lacking.

So maybe you haven't developed your processes or people don't know them or you did them and they are outdated.

And so it doesn't really matter if you have those processes, whatever it might be, it's going to show that that area is weak and it's probably going to end up on the issues list and something that you want to look at and figure out how to get that

one going. And then after you've taken it for six or seven or eight years or more, it's just an incredible data point because it feels like it remains very true. You know, when we get that score, I get it. That makes sense to me.

So that's another really valuable piece that we just look at once a year and it's confirming. It continues to confirm. I feel like we're solid.

We're on the right track. So those are some of the tools and traction. There are way more.

These are the ones we use. There's a whole toolkit and it inspires me on occasion. We're like, gosh, we need to dig in and dust off some more.

But actually, for a 10-person marketing firm, those tools are things we use all the time, a part of our language. They're not a hassle to use. They help us be more efficient now that we've implemented them.

And maybe if you were considering it, you would have a different set of tools. I think those were like 10 or something, right? It's pretty doable and has been very valuable, helpful for us.

Melissa, what takeaways about EOS are we forgetting? What do we not cover that we might want to share or any other things that... I love how you started off with how this could be applicable to AEC firms.

What did I miss?

I don't think we missed anything. I think that one of the biggest takeaways is that you don't have to do it all. You can start it.

You can take pieces of it. You can work towards it. You'll take the test and find if there's areas you haven't implemented, you'll score lower there.

You kind of know where you need to head, but even just implementing something like Rocks or creating a VTO would be two places that could be good starting points if you want to piecemeal this.

Yay. Well, since Melissa said that we didn't miss anything, then I will take her word for it and say that that's a good time to wrap up this episode of the podcast and hope that folks out there find this useful or intriguing.

I was talking to a client who not on the ownership side, it was a marketing director and she mentioned, she's like, I wanted to read that book, she brought it up and I think it will serve you well.

Whether you convert everyone in your firm to it or not, I think it's a good thing to do and so it was interesting to you, check it out and know that you have the Middle of Six blessing because it's been a very powerful tool for us.

Melissa, thank you for being on the podcast.

Yeah. Here's to season five.

Season five. Yeah. All right.

See you later. The Shortlist is presented by Middle of Six. Our producer is Kyle Davis with digital marketing support by the team at Middle of Six.

If you're looking for past episodes or more info, check out our podcast page at middleofsix.com/theshortlist. You can follow us on LinkedIn and Instagram at Middle of Six. Be sure to subscribe so you don't miss an episode.

Until next time, keep on hustling.

Bye. Bye.

The Shortlist is a podcast that explores all things AEC marketing. Hosted by Middle of Six Principal, Wendy Simmons, each episode features members of the MOS team, where we take a deep dive on a wide range of topics related to AEC marketing including: proposal development, strategy, team building, business development, branding, digital marketing, and more. You can listen to our full archive of episodes here.