It's often said that managing people is the most challenging aspect of running a business. While there is some truth to that, the statement implies that "the people" are the issue—when in reality, it's often rushed processes, being unintentional or unspecific about roles and responsibilities, and failing to provide clear feedback or effective coaching that are to blame.
After several years of growth and nearly constant recruiting, the leadership team at Middle of Six has refined their people processes and are excited to share best practices. As a company, we believe that building a strong team starts with clarity in the recruiting and interview process and is maintained by creating an environment of trust, respect, and transparency.
In the final episode of Season 2, Principals Wendy Simmons and Melissa Richey are joined by Operations Manager Susan O'Leary to discuss their philosophies for recruiting, interviewing, onboarding, and supporting a tightly bonded and highly effective marketing team.
Podcast Transcript
Welcome to The Shortlist.
We're exploring all things AEC marketing to help your firm win The Shortlist.
I'm your host, Wendy Simmons, and each episode, I'll be joined by one of my team members from Middle of Six to answer your questions.
Today, we're talking with Melissa Ritchie and Middle of Six's operation manager, Susan O'Leary, to discuss the topic of building and supporting a marketing team.
Hi, Melissa.
Hi, Susan.
Hey, Wendy.
Hi, Wendy.
Susan, this is your first time on the podcast, and I thought this would be a good opportunity to let you introduce yourself to our listeners, and you kind of have a unique role at Middle of Six because you're not doing client work day to day, but you're the glue to help the rest of us do great client work.
So yeah, say hi to the listeners and tell us a little bit about yourself.
Hi, everybody.
Thanks for having me, Wendy.
I'm super excited to be here and to do my first podcast, so thanks.
I started with Middle of Six about a year and a half ago, and it's been great.
I actually worked for Middle of Six back in 2018, did some event planning for clients, and that was really great.
Took a break, and as the company grew, Wendy had the need for an operations manager, and that's how I came into play.
Fun little fact, Wendy and I are actually sisters.
I'm three and a half years younger, but we've always been together, running together, doing all sorts of things, and so it's very appropriate for us to now be working together.
We work really well together, and it's been great.
So thanks for having me.
So is Wendy the Middle of Six or is susan the Middle of Six?
I think we both count as being in the Middle of Six, right?
because there is one person who's younger than susan in our family, so we're just gonna cluster us all in the middle together.
How does that work?
Love it.
Engineers hate it, but I love it.
We don't care.
We make all the rules here.
Well, susan, thank you for, I always say, like, bravely being on the podcast because it's not the normal thing for us to do as part of our life.
And, you know, you don't, in your previous working career, you did work a lot with clients and conducted high-powered meetings and were very organized.
You had all of the skills to come in and, like, help us run an efficient, growing business.
But then to step into the, in front of the microphone, it's always a little bit of an exciting moment.
So anyways, very happy to have you here, and it's also fantastic working with you.
As this topic is kind of relevant in this, you know, building a marketing team or building any team, you know, one of those things we identified was that as Middle of Six was growing from one person in 2017 to now 10 today in 2023, man, we learned a lot.
There were so many changes.
We wanted to be professional and be able to recruit well and treat our team members well.
And part of that is having the right person involved in the details of supporting that team.
So Susan fills that role really well for us and great position of trust for me.
Someone I've known for her whole life.
Most of mine too.
So anyways, I think it's going to be a great conversation.
And of course, we are listeners are familiar with Melissa, the other principal at Middle of Six.
She's been on many episodes and together, Melissa, Susan and I make up the leadership team at Middle of Six.
So we are thinking, trying to think ahead at the like five year view of the company and what are the immediate needs?
What kind of issues do we have?
How can we solve them?
We meet every other week to dig into that at a very strategic level.
And so we are going to unpack some of the things that we have learned, developed, explored, tried and failed.
So that maybe for our listeners out there, whether you're a manager or a principal or a team member, you could have some takeaways that might be applicable to your group.
So when we were outlining the foundation of building and supporting a marketing team, kind of came to two main elements here, recruiting and retaining.
So we're going to break this conversation up into those areas.
Let's start with recruiting.
And I just want to open this up to Susan or Melissa, you know, to start the conversation off.
Any thoughts on even Middle of Six's philosophy for recruiting or from your perspective, you know, what it takes to find and build that great team?
So I'll go ahead and jump in.
I think that at Middle of Six, what we realize is that candidates are picking us as much as we're picking them.
So it's important that the job and the company is a right fit for them.
And we really try to walk through that and explain it so that they have a good understanding of what Middle of Six is.
And I think we have a small team, so it's really important there is a fit between both Middle of Six and the person we're bringing on to the team and that there's a good vibe amongst everyone.
So that's another aspect of being the right fit for both sides of the equation.
Yeah, so we like to ask the candidates what they're looking for and what's important for them in their next career move.
We've learned that people want to see their values represented in the company that they're working for.
It's really important that it fits with who they are.
So that kind of comes down to work-life balance.
Might be a love for animals or kids, which we definitely see in our team.
Working for a woman or minority-owned business is important to many people.
Yeah, I feel like we hear that a lot.
We do hear that a lot.
People are really happy to work for a woman-owned business.
Also, opportunities for mentorship.
Being led and taught and supported is important for lots of people.
And then open communication between management and the team.
People want to be heard.
They have opinions.
They want to do things better and see improvements, and sometimes that just doesn't happen from management.
So that's another one that we get told often.
Right.
These are all answers to the question in that screening interview.
You know, what attracted you to Middle of Six, and why would you like to be part of our team?
And then Susan gets to hear firsthand other, you know, these candidates, their experience with our brand out there.
And I'm sure that other companies are doing this very intentionally.
We work with companies who think about their website and their social media for recruiting.
But for us, we get to see that firsthand very clearly when people come to us and say, well, I saw you were a woman owned firm, and I would really like to be part of that.
Or I didn't realize that this was an opportunity, like a consulting role, where I could have a seat, and I wouldn't just have to be by myself consulting, but I could be part of a team.
I mean, there's any number of descriptions that they give us, but as the business owner, it's so satisfying to hear it.
And also makes me motivated to be clear and genuine about who we are as a company on those external channels, so that good candidates can do some of that vetting before they put their resume in the pile.
So what about when we go out and start actively recruiting?
because we often accept resumes and letters and even emails kind of inquiring about if we have open positions.
But when we're actively recruiting, Susan, what have you seen as some good tips for making sure you kind of stretch your net far enough, cast that net far enough, and get the right people in that net when we go out to recruit?
Well, I think the job description is very important, and we try to be really thorough with our job description.
We also like to target our audience.
So the SMPS group is really where we start with, aside from just organic resumes that get sent to us from the website or however people find us.
And although the job description is a big wish list, I think that it gives people a good idea of what we're looking for and what they can expect in the job.
We also have a very specific hiring process.
I don't want to say it's unique because I'm sure lots of other firms do this, but I will say that it's specific in the way that very intentionally slow.
We try our best to not be rushed, and we want to walk through that process.
So as candidates are learning what they can about us to decide if that's a good fit for them, we are also feeling like we have the time and space to make a good decision.
Melissa, could you walk us through the high level of our hiring process?
The first thing we do when we get the candidates is we do a screening interview.
And susan, now that we have her as part of our leadership team, conducts those screening interviews where just some high level getting to know you, questions, what you're interested, what you're looking for, salary ranges, just so we're not wasting anyone's time if we're way out of alignment in that topic.
So that's the first step.
And if that goes well, then we move to an interview.
Sometimes it's with Wendy and I and the candidate.
Sometimes it's just Wendy and the candidate.
Sometimes it's just the candidate and I, depending on availability.
And in that first screening interview, susan is very clear that our process takes a while.
I think that's one of the things that we've all probably experienced in the past where you're in a recruitment cycle and they go silent and you don't know what's going on and you think, oh, they don't want to continue on with me.
So we're very clear with each step of our process of what the next step is going to be and how long that's going to take.
So after that screening interview, in the next two weeks, we're going to schedule a one-on-one interview with Wendy or with Melissa or both of them.
After that one, we might say, well, we're going to get together back as a leadership team and we'll let you know what the next steps are next week.
After the candidate goes through that second interview, if we feel like they're a good fit and we want to get the input from the team, then we schedule a interview with our entire team, which that might seem intimidating.
We acknowledge that, but because we're a small team and the fit is so important, we feel like that's a real vital step to get the input from everyone on the candidate if they feel like a good fit.
The thing I appreciate about that is that everyone on the team kind of asks different types of questions.
Like, Becky always gets at some real, like, more personal, what are you about outside of work questions.
You know, other folks on the team might dig into graphic capabilities or in-design capabilities.
So it's a time over teams for everyone on the Middle of Six side to get to know that candidate and for the candidate to see what we're like as a group of people.
I feel like I spend a lot of time in that group meeting asking the longest-winded questions, probably just like on this podcast, because I want to describe what set up the scenario.
This is very common in our work experience here.
I'm describing what it's gonna be like for that candidate so that hopefully they can understand.
We try really hard not to just sugarcoat everything, even though we come into those interviews very excited and excited to meet a person and wonder if they can be the right fit for us, but we also want to show the reality of what it's like to sit in the consultant seat.
So I ask a lot of questions that have just a ton of description, and hopefully that's part of that, making sure the candidate gets to pick this and pick us at the same time as we're establishing if they could be part of our team as well.
One thing that I love about the team interview too is that Wendy asks these questions, and it usually ends with everyone chiming in about how much they love Middle of Six, and that is common.
And so I think the best part is that the candidate gets to hear from the whole team why they love working here, and it's so reassuring for them whether they choose to take the position or we choose to hire them.
They get to hear the real honest side from the team, and it's such a great thing to be a part of.
Yeah, and they also hear a little bit of back and forth between our own team members.
I think there's transparency on how we actually communicate.
So someone's experience, they might describe something, what they love about it, and then someone else may chime in and say, yeah, and also that's really hard over here for these reasons.
So they're getting to see, I truly believe there's not a difference of experience from the interview stage, except for maybe that's more stressful than the everyday stage later on when you're part of the team.
And so bringing this back to our listeners and how they might use this, we're just kind of very slowly mapping out our process so that you can see how intentional we are about that.
And depending on what your hiring process looks like, maybe there's some takeaways that you could weave in so that you are just asking yourself, are we being true and real and genuine and clear about what this job is going to be like?
I think another important step after we get off that call with the candidate, we keep everyone on the team, and neither Wendy, susan, or I give our opinions.
We let the team talk about what their impressions were.
Reason for that, you avoid the halo effect where people on the team defer to the leadership team and just agree with them.
So I don't feel like we have that issue so much anyway, but I mean, that is human nature.
That is something that happened.
So we're very intentional about letting the team speak first on their impressions on the candidate.
Yep.
And that team interview almost always includes a skills assessment, which we provide these like top candidates.
It's usually, that's kind of the final round of selection anyway.
So we're not exercising a lot of people.
We're trying to be very intentional about how we're using everyone's time.
But the skills assessment is related to their role.
Often, the easiest way to do that is related to some sort of proposal preparation and just hear about their process.
We try to keep it confined to a few hours, as tight as possible, because everyone is busy.
No one has time for extra work, but it is very helpful in understanding the real skills and also presentation skills of any candidate.
So I used to struggle with it a little bit more, feeling like, is this ethical?
Is it okay?
Should people be paid?
What are the best practices?
I've read a lot on that.
But the feedback from our team and even the candidates is that they thought that part of the process was really helpful to understand what the work would be like and to feel to be put on the spot and present in front of 10 strangers and have an opinion about what you did is kind of like the core of what we do.
Yeah, I mean, that is a real life scenario of working here.
You are starting with a new client and are kicking, if you're a pursuit strategist, you're kicking off our proposal and presenting to principals and executives of leading AEC firms.
And so this is a snapshot of what it's like.
I think it is a real accurate depiction of life at Middle of Six.
So susan, once we've gone through this whole process and possibly even before the final skills assessment round, you might be contacting references.
Do you have anything to share about what you're looking for when you're reaching out to references or the types of conversations you have?
Yeah, I think when it comes to references, I try to have just a real casual conversation with these people.
They're obviously the cheerleaders for the candidates, and that's great.
But I want to hear real life scenarios of where and how they've worked with these people and what they love about them, really.
And it's a great opportunity to basically have them confirm what we've already seen through the interview process, what we know they're good at and where they shine.
So usually, the references take the opportunity to just highlight those things, and it's very helpful.
And they're quick conversations, but they do have value.
We also check some side references if we are connected within the AEC community.
That can be something, sometimes that doesn't exist, but often, because it's a small network of people, that it's really easy to know or have worked with someone else that has a connection there, and you can get kind of a different perspective.
because obviously, a reference is someone who is going to say all the great things, which is very helpful, but it's nice to know some other side perspectives.
So keep that in mind if you're a candidate out there, right?
People, especially if you're connected on LinkedIn, there's lots of ways to kind of find other trusted sources out there.
So obviously, a big part of determining fit between a candidate and an employer is compensation.
So one source that we use at Middle of Six is the SNPS salary survey.
You know, there's the National Survey, there's the survey for the Seattle chapter, different chapters have their own salary survey.
So we use that as well as other data in the industry to set ranges for our salary.
Wendy, I feel like we had an interesting negotiation when I was coming on board, and you have kind of a different philosophy around negotiating salaries.
Can you speak to that a little bit?
Oh, yeah, definitely.
I feel strongly about this.
I'm not sure if it's, you know, was at the time I was starting this business and the interviewing and conversations I had had prior to starting Middle of Six, but maybe going into a director of marketing position.
I just felt like that whole negotiation was such a game and I did not like it at all.
It felt uncomfortable.
I mean, I was literally kind of watching and reading everything I could to figure out how to do a good job at that part of it.
And while negotiating is important, I decided that at Middle of Six, I could throw that out the window when it comes to hiring.
So that's something I do speak with candidates early in the process.
And then again, at the very end, when we're talking about making an offer.
So it's very personal conversation and it has a bit of transparency to it.
You know, I let people know what our billing rates are, what the expectations are for utilization, and what that translates to for the salary bans that we can pay in.
We talk about the other benefits that we have and what that equates to.
We have always tried to be as competitive as possible in all areas.
We are a small business, so there are limits to what we can do.
But immediately, as we are eligible to provide a benefit, we've usually jumped on the opportunity to add that for the team.
So I spell that out, and I also communicate very genuinely to candidates that the offer I'm going to make is based on what blends well with our whole team, so that we have fairness across the board with compensation of our team members, and so that it also kind of lowers the stress and production level that that new team member is going to have to sit under, right?
If their compensation is way out of whack, then they have to bill more or produce more, and that does not create the environment that we want here at Middle of Six.
We want to have space.
We want to do good work.
We want to feel supportive.
We're competitive to win projects for our clients, but we are not competitive against each other.
We're supportive.
So all of that is what I try to communicate during that negotiating process to say, I'm going to tell you what I want to offer for this position and why this makes sense.
And then I need the candidate to tell me what they need that makes sense in their life and for their family.
And so we make that have that conversation and, you know, if it works, excellent.
And if it doesn't, we always try to stay connected and wish each other well, because again, it's a small community.
And so we're here to support each other.
So hopefully, there's a moment when someone accepts our offer letter and we all cheer.
I'm always excited to go and share the news to the team, usually at our afternoon meeting or maybe if it's late on a Friday for in a team's chat, you know, to celebrate that that candidate accepted our offer.
And then the exciting work of getting ready for onboarding and training starts.
susan, since you lead all of that, do you want us to walk us through the onboarding?
Yeah, definitely.
At Middle of Six, we have a pretty organized onboarding process.
We outline an agenda for the new team member for their first week so that they know exactly what to expect.
And within that agenda, we have a schedule for some meetings with different team members, basically from each department.
So they'll meet with the graphic designers and the digital marketers and the pursuit strategists.
And it's an opportunity for them to just be walked through the Middle of Six processes so that they can understand exactly how it's done, where to find things, and what to expect.
So it's an opportunity for them to also meet with each team member and kind of have that one-on-one connection and be able to get some tips and pointers.
And overall, it just really helps them integrate with the work that much faster.
They know where to find things.
They know who to ask questions to.
And it's a great way to start the week off.
Even though it takes a little while to get ramped up, it does help.
They always say that onboarding is such a critical part of setting up a new team member for fulfillment in the job.
And we take that very seriously.
Again, I always think that half of what I'm doing is just made up.
It's gut instinct.
But then the other side of it is, how many business books have we read, Melissa?
Like all of them, right?
We're always looking for those nuggets that can help create a better process or learn from others who have done it or that great, someone who's spent the time to think clearly through a process.
So that kind of makes me think about Radical Candor and how often we've referenced that book, the author's Kim Scott.
I don't know, Melissa, you have brought that up many times.
In fact, I think you suggested that we have the one-on-ones based on that book.
So that was something we implemented years ago now, but at the time, it was definitely based on Kim's recommendation.
Can you give us a little overview of Radical Candor?
Sure.
So she came from the tech world, Google, Apple, Twitter.
And the kind of crux of the issue is that often managers can either be so kind, they get walked over or they're a jerk because they're too direct and don't demonstrate that they care about their staff.
So it's about caring personally for the people so that you can give clear feedback and take clear feedback from your direct reports.
And then everyone's working together and doing better as a team because you've got that relationship and that clear communication and feedback loop going.
I mean, it's not perfect.
It's not easy.
You know, there's, it's a practice.
It's something you've got to work on.
You have to, it's a time to connect with your staff and let them know that you care about them as people.
So we have one-on-ones every week.
It's a chance for us to get to know each other on a personal level.
It's a chance to get feedback, offer feedback, understand how the work is going, hear about, you know, maybe what's going on in their personal life that might be affecting their work life.
But I think it's a good chance where those things can sometimes slip if you don't make it intentional.
So every week, Wendy and I both have people on the team that are direct reports that we have one-on-one meetings with.
And that's kind of how we build those personal connections and make the team work really well together.
And I think by having them scheduled every week, it gives the team the opportunity to speak up, right?
They don't have to hold it in and have these issues that kind of linger and don't have a space to speak on.
And so the one-on-ones is a great opportunity for people to just stay connected, especially from being remote and being in all different areas.
It's a great way to keep that connection between leadership and the team.
Really the important part about when you get feedback at a one-on-one is that you take it seriously and you act on it.
So for us, as a leadership team, we meet every other week and we have an issues list we maintain to discuss as a group.
So if something gets brought up by a team member, that goes on the issues list so that we can work to solve that as a leadership team.
We can communicate back to the staff that we're working on this issue.
Maybe we don't have it figured out.
Maybe it's something that we want to talk to someone else on the team to get their perspective on.
But that's the biggest point is you have to act on the feedback, or what is the point of having these meetings, where you're asking people their thoughts and feelings on topics.
Yeah, definitely.
There you go.
They're sisters, can you tell?
There it is.
Well, I was just going to add that to emphasize care personally and challenge directly.
Those are, it's a good mantra to almost basically have on a sticky note in your computer to remember that.
We're here to listen to the team and get out of the fog of all of our work, but to actually hear what's going on with them and pay attention when there are changes in whatever it might be, right?
That can signal something.
And then that challenge directly is another really helpful thing.
I like to be friends with everyone.
I want to be liked, you know, that's the place that I feel most comfortable.
But it's a lot better to just hear something and almost as soon as possible, as soon as is appropriate and professional, right?
To ask a question to clarify or maybe provide some guidance of how that could be done differently or looked at so that you're not saving up as a manager.
You don't have this long list for your one-on-one or worse at the annual review of, here are the 47 things that I thought were strange, that I didn't understand why you did that this year.
You know, that's the opposite of what we would want to do.
So hopefully by just creating a culture where anyone, including people, could ask me that strategy isn't really making sense at this point, you know, so that we can talk through it and kind of keeping those lines open, that it's not a personal attack.
It is just a question in how we're going to like do better.
So it's very helpful.
It's not easy, right?
Nothing, nothing good is very easy in life, but it's worth practicing all the time.
Yeah, that's why it is a practice.
You know, it's the same thing.
I like to be liked by people pleaser, so the challenge directly, I mean, it might sound a little aggressive in the terminology, but it is about just being direct.
And when someone knows that you care about them, they know if you're asking them about, why did you do this this way, or help me understand this decision process you went through, it's coming from a place of caring and wanting them to grow professionally and being open to different ways of doing things and different strategies that they may have employed that work better than what we're doing.
So all marketing teams in AEC are usually kind of overloaded.
There's more work than we could ever do in most cases, right?
This is a very common thing.
We can talk a little bit about how Middle of Six balances workload.
I've even shared some of our tools with our clients in the past where they're like, how do you figure this out?
Again, it's not a perfect science here, but we have some some things that we've tested and kind of refined over the last six and a half years.
So, you know, for marketing teams, marketing managers out there, there's maybe a version of this which is related to tracking RFPs and having things on the radar and having conversations and processes to make sure that your team is just not hitting, being hit again and again with like a rock through the windshield, right?
We need to have some space to kind of be planning.
Melissa, how about you share a little bit about our kind of workload planning and also balancing what that looks like and how we chat through that?
Yeah, we've tested a few different techniques at the early days.
It was literally an email that went out on Monday where everybody said what was on their list for the week.
I remember that.
I remember that one.
We had a spreadsheet we worked for a while that wasn't turned out.
It wasn't working.
We went more to a kind of self-report, found that we weren't hitting our utilization goal.
So what we're using now that's working really well is a it's an Excel spreadsheet.
It's got every project we've got going, each team member and a place to put the hours.
And at the bottom of the spreadsheet, it tallies up how many hours you have to meet for the week.
Everybody fills that spreadsheet out on Friday afternoon, and we review it at a meeting on Monday, and it gives us a glimpse into how the workload is being divided amongst the team.
So if someone's got 40 hours, we don't bill 100% of our time, so we know that we need to take some of those hours off and spread them out amongst the team.
It also, if someone's a little low on their billable work, then we see that as an opportunity for them to work on Middle of Six initiatives, be that our social media, recording the podcast, working on a blog post, giving a presentation.
So we definitely reserve time for Middle of Six work.
And the other reason we aren't fully utilized is so that we have additional capacity if there's some last-minute requests from a client.
But we're finding it works well, gives us a big glimpse of the team.
The other benefit, which is helpful for me and Wendy, when clients ask if we have space for a project, we know by looking at that.
So kind of as a takeaway for your team, you may not be tracking in this way, but if you know how many hours you have on your team to spend on work and a principal comes to you and says, we have this thing that needs to be done right now, you have a better idea of how many hours are available and whether that's doable or not.
We don't actually track all of the Middle of Six projects on that project list.
We have inversions in the past, but for an in-house marketing team, you certainly could do that, right?
You could have your, I don't know, three to seven pursuits and interviews and things that are going on, but then maybe there's another line where internal initiatives.
Are you doing a new website?
You know, do you have some award submittals?
Whatever it might be, those things.
And I think it's a good practice to allot some hours to it.
Maybe people have standing responsibilities, like maintaining social media, and that's not 30 minutes a day.
It's probably more, you know?
So you need to account for that, not underestimate what that effort's going to take.
And that could be helpful to show company leadership of how your team's being used, or maybe even eye-opening for yourself as the manager of how things could be shuffled, so that you could use those resources more effectively.
It also creates a pretty nice dynamic when we can visually see that someone looks like they're going to be overwhelmed.
As a team, we can see that and say, hey, it looks like you have a lot.
Is there any of the graphics I can do, or should I write that section for you?
So for team building, that's a nice side benefit.
Yeah, and the other side of that is that we also meet every day at our team huddle, and that gives us the opportunity to reevaluate, right?
The week has progressed, and maybe new projects have come in, or some have fallen off.
And so the huddle is another opportunity for people to speak up and say, okay, this project is on hold for now.
I now need more work.
Who has worked to pass my way?
And so between the capacity spreadsheet and having it outline there, we also can just have those open conversations about where people have space and who needs help.
Definitely the goal is for no one to be overloaded and overworked.
And many people come from other companies, in-house marketing departments.
Having felt that way, and Middle of Six is a little bit different.
We're trying to really spread the love in that way.
So our huddle kind of help us make sure that everybody has what they need and isn't overworked.
I think before the pandemic, I would have cringed at the idea of a daily marketing meeting.
It's actually a standard practice at many companies, but I thought, what would you have to say?
Or that seems like another meeting, right?
Does everything have to be a meeting?
But we started that right at the beginning of the pandemic so that we could check in.
It was almost like wellness checks, right?
How's everyone doing?
What's on your mind today?
Remember how much news was coming through and just like being blasted at us?
There were so many unknowns.
And it turned into something that we never wanted to let go because we found out we really like each other.
We actually do want to say hi.
Sometimes we don't have any business to talk about.
So we talk about, I don't know, food or TV or whatever it might be.
And that's important, too.
So I'm sure we've mentioned it a million times on the podcast.
But I just wanted to say that I would have not suggested a daily marketing meeting, but now I wouldn't want to go without it.
And it is a good way for all of us working from home to be able to say hi and catch up.
What did you do this weekend?
How's things going?
It's just another way to connect.
And it's not mandatory.
So if you're in the flow on a project, then keep working or if you've got some other appointment going.
So the only one we want everyone at is the Monday one, since that's where we discuss workload, but it's not mandatory.
Yeah, I like that, too, right?
Everyone has autonomy to decide how to use their day.
I really am happy that most people are able to make most huddles.
That to me is a sign that that's working well and that people find some value in it.
Well, beyond the huddle, we also are intentional about doing team building and fun, getting people together.
So we have done things like glass blowing.
Often we're combining our annual retreat and our brand photography session for the year with some element of team fun.
We've done like wine and painting days and all of it.
Usually, something creative is what ends up happening, and it's just a great opportunity for us to come together in person.
And you just get another element, a new dynamic with the team when everyone gets together in person.
Yeah, definitely.
I think by adding some fun work days in, it definitely gives the team that time to get to know each other, right?
Instead of being on the huddle with the whole crew, you're going to go off and have one on one conversations with people and get a little bit more intimate and build that bond, which is super important.
For us, we don't get to see each other in person very often.
Some of us can go into our Tacoma office, and that's wonderful, and there's a lot of great things that happen there, but it's still just a few of the team.
We're spread out across three states, so that means that when we do get to travel to be together, it feels like a reunion, sort of, and it's just a nice way to connect.
But we've also found some ways to interject fun in, like, every day, right?
Part of that is the vibe of the huddle, but it has also turned into things like recently susan sent coffee and a treat to everybody at home, just for a surprise, right?
Like just a little bit of niceness that I feel like when you were in the office, maybe there'd be a box of donuts in the break room, and it just made you excited for a second.
It's a little bit harder being remote, so we look for things like that.
susan, what else is on our list of things that we've tried?
I'm thinking of like the dog pictures.
That feels like that was kind of like a fun little addition to the culture.
It definitely was.
It was something that most of us have a pet, and we thought it would be fun to bring them into the office.
So we had little pictures made and hung up, and everybody smiles when they come into the office and gets to see their pet portrait up on the wall.
So that was a really fun one.
And we're looking at other events, so in a couple weeks, we're going to be going to the Mariners game as a team.
And I think, again, just another great opportunity to be out of the office, not thinking strategy, not thinking client work, and just being together and building that bond.
So there's so many options when it comes to team building, but we're trying lots of new things this year.
We've had smaller groups go to the SNPS Seattle Trivia Night, so that's a nice little smaller group session where we're in person together.
And I always make it a habit to make sure I'm going physically to the locations that everyone is at.
So luckily, I've got family in Oregon.
It brings me down there, and it's a great opportunity to swing by our Oregon team.
And I'll go up and visit Kyle and Billingham and get some good coffee and beer while I'm up there.
So I mean, it's just kind of something to consider, depending on the makeup of your team.
How are you connecting personally?
because then you're building that trust and just having a deeper relationship, I think, serves everyone well.
More fun to like your team members and become friends than it is to feel like you're all by yourself just on a team screen.
Okay.
Well, that was a pretty great overview of the Middle of Six process for our recruiting and then some of the things we do to help retain team members.
We could talk more about the dynamics of spreading responsibilities and having people take ownership of different areas of expertise to kind of grow professionally.
There's lots of things that we could go even deeper into, and we'll maybe put that on our season three list of podcasts.
But for now, I hope that some takeaways are that Kim Scott radical candor book is definitely worth reading if you haven't.
If you have any control over the hiring process, maybe doing an audit of that and looking very carefully, like put yourself in that position.
What was it like when you went through it?
What would you change in the on-boarding or the interview process?
And can you enact a little bit of change to make sure the company culture is coming through in that process?
If you've gone through that work to hire the person, hopefully it's the right person, and then they can stay for a long time and really kind of add to the quality of your team.
So thank you, Melissa and susan, for sharing your thoughts on this.
I could not do it without you.
You are such an important role in building our team, and it's always fun to have you on the podcast.
The last podcast of season two, by the way, so...
Woohoo!
Yeah, good job.
You guys are rock stars.
Your pro's at this.
Congrats on making your first podcast, susan.
Whew, did it.
Since we're on the topic of recruiting, and if you liked what you heard on today's podcast, go ahead and check out our website, middleofsix.com/careers.
There you can learn about our company values, see our people, learn about the benefits package, and view detailed job descriptions for any of the positions that we happen to be currently recruiting for.
It's also worth noting if you don't see an opening or something that perfectly matches your skill set, but you still wanna talk, go ahead, shoot us an email to careers at middleofsix.com with details about yourself and what you're looking for in your next position.
We'd definitely be happy to connect with you and provide some direction on your journey.
The Shortlist is presented by Middle of Six and hosted by me, Wendy Simmons, principal marketing strategist.
Our producer is Kyle Davis with digital marketing and graphic design by the team at Middle of Six.
We wanna hear from you.
If you have a question or a topic you'd like us to discuss, send an email or voice memo to theshortlistatmiddleofsix.com.
If you're looking for past episodes or more info, check out our podcast page at middleofsix.com/theshortlist.
You can follow us on LinkedIn and Instagram at Middle of Six.
Thanks so much for listening.
We hope you'll tell your friends and colleagues about the show and be sure to subscribe so you don't miss any of our upcoming episodes.
Until next time, keep on hustling.
Bye.
Bye, see you next year.
Talk to you on season three.
CPSM CEU Credits: 0.5 | Domain: 6
The Shortlist is a podcast that explores all things AEC marketing. Hosted by Middle of Six Principal, Wendy Simmons, each episode features members of the MOS team, where we take a deep dive on a wide range of topics related to AEC marketing including: proposal development, strategy, team building, business development, branding, digital marketing, and more. You can listen to our full archive of episodes here.